Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010

8/8/2019 Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010

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username time status

Ideas_Factory 19:59 RT @Creativeedu: RT @colport: Join @janwebb21 for #ukedchat "Why do

so many new teachers leave within 5 years and how we can reduce drain?"

janwebb21 19:59 Welcome to #ukedchat!!! an hour long discussion coming up to discuss

why somany new teachers leave within 5 years - and how to reduce drain!

janwebb21 20:00So what factors are discouraging new teachers from staying in the

profession? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:01RT @colport: @janwebb21 It's an interesting one! Is this more a problem

at secondary than primary? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:01@frogphilp what sort of staff development is needed then? #ukedchat

colport 20:01@janwebb21 It's an interesting one! Is this more a problem at secondary

than primary? #ukedchat

frogphilp 20:01

@janwebb21 main factor: poor staff development from slt. #ukedchatcolport 20:02

Has anyone seen colleagues leaving within 5 years? Where do they go?

#ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:02 good evening. are the teachers leaving necessarily 'weak' teachers? What

if they have taught 5 ruddy great years? #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:02 I know at least two who have left purely as a result of extreme behaviour

issues they've felt uncomfortably dealing with #UKEdChat

janwebb21 20:02RT @philallman1: @janwebb21 #ukedchat workload, going into profession

for wrong reasons.

janwebb21 20:02@colport @frogphilp #ukedchat and does it depend on the teacher's

previous employment experience?

philallman1 20:02@janwebb21 #ukedchat workload, going into profession for wrong

reasons.

Ideas_Factory 20:02 #ukedchat Lack of work/life balance, People come into prof thinking its an

easy job but they find in reality that their old life was better

ianaddison 20:02@janwebb21 how about a 70 hour working week? No recognition from

SMT? Getting abuse from children/parents? #ukedchat

leeandrewdunn 20:03 #ukedchat are there any stats to show demographics - male / female /geography etc of NQTs and those leaving the profession?

john_at_muuua 20:03It would be worse for the profession if there was stability in retention. we

need new blood to enhance teaching. #ukedchat

colport 20:03@john_at_muuua Indeed....and where do you go if you do leave?

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:03@john_at_muuua but if they've taught 5 great years, why leave something

that is working well? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:03 RT @colport: Has anyone seen colleagues leaving within 5 years? Where

do they go? #ukedchat< outside teaching I had the 5 yr itch too!

Ideas_Factory 20:03@frogphilp #ukedchat Leaving School maybe but surely not the entire

profession

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misshbond 20:04Two people I graduated with have left teaching already because of the

enormous after school workload... #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:04@CreativeEdu @deerwood #UKEdChat is the type of training also part of

the problem?

mr_chadwick 20:04@colport Two friends of mine ended up in police force! #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:04 I friends who have done 'teachfirst' and struggled to make it through, all

have hated it. Not heard one positive story! #UKEdChat

janwebb21 20:04 RT @leeandrewdunn: #ukedchat are there any stats to show demographics

- male / female / geography etc of NQTs and those leaving the profession?

deerwood 20:04 Why do teachers leave the profession, perhaps because they're no longer

treated like professionals http://bit.ly/i1huom #ukedchat

philallman1 20:04 RT @janwebb21: @colport @frogphilp #ukedchat and does it depend onthe teacher's prev empl exp.?< yes! got to go into it for rt reasons

colport 20:04@philallman1 Outside teaching, I had the 1/2/3/4/5 year itch, until

decided after 12 years to 'go for it'! #ukedchat

deerwood 20:05@janwebb21 do you mean initial teacher training or the lack of

subsequent training? #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:05@CreativeEdu interesting as Gove seems to see teachfirst as the PGCE

replacement #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:05 RT @misshbond: 2 ppl I graduated with have left teaching already cos of

enormous after school workload... -> Def a major issue! #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:05tech question - have been recommended twitterfall to follow #UKEdChat

can I write tweets on there too or just read?

philallman1 20:05 RT @janwebb21: #UKEdChat is the type of training also part of the

problem?< yes is current training relevant or lead them to false concl.

colport 20:05@mr_chadwick Wow....from teaching to Police Force?!? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:05RT @Catriona_O: @janwebb21 #ukedchat!! good topic! do we need to

rethink teacher ed quotas and throughput?

janwebb21 20:05 @misshbond so what makes a workload balanced? #ukedchat

Catriona_O 20:05@janwebb21 #ukedchat!! good topic! do we need to rethink teacher edquotas and throughput?

janwebb21 20:06RT @colport: This begs the question that people come into the teaching

thinking it's an easy option? #ukedchat

cleverfiend 20:06 @Creativeedu you can tweet from Twitterfall too for #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:06RT @deerwood: Perhaps because they're no longer treated like

professionals < think this could be a factor #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:06 @deerwood both!!!! #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:06@Catriona_O i being a teacher isn't what you do, it's what you are - quotas

don't touch that! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:06 #ukedchat The majority that do leave have no exp of other life just uni

then Teaching-having worked for 12 years b4 teaching I appreciate it

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colport 20:06This begs the question that people come into the teaching thinking it's an

easy option? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:07@john_at_muuua I wonder if anyone has experience of teachfirst and how

it affects retention rates? #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:07@colport #ukedchat Of course they do-look at the 'working hours and the

holidays' easy life ;^)

philallman1 20:07 #ukedchat often say that I love my job but nowadays you HAVE to know its

what you want to do. You can't fall into this profession anymore!

colport 20:07@Ideas_Factory Some people in the profession do not appreciate the time

outside teaching. #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:07Everyone's saying workload causes teachers to quit. Why do we do it?

Didn't we discuss this few week's back? #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:07 @colport @mr_chadwick I know coppers who've become teachers, works

both ways. But what of experienced soldiers?#ukedchat

frogphilp 20:07 @Ideas_Factory some schools can be so stressful the teachers never

recover and leave not just the school but the profession. #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:07 @john_at_muuua having worked in a school with teachfirst teachers, i

would say NOT, they weren't good! #UKEdChat (they don't want to teach!)

colport 20:07 @Ideas_Factory Me & you are spookily similar #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:08 RT @Smichael920: @janwebb21 Ofsted,sats, high level accountability, low

level freedom, high level prescription, little creativity. #ukedchat

dailydenouement 20:08 I'm in my 3rd yr of teaching. Previous career in retail mgmt & HR. don't

think could cope with workload if this had been 1st job. #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:08 RT @mr_chadwick: RT @deerwood: Perhaps because theyre no longer

treated like professionals < think this could be a factor - Agree #ukedchat

Smichael920 20:08@janwebb21 Ofsted,sats, high level accountability, low level freedom, high

level prescription, little creativity. #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:08 My friend's done 6years, she's having a baby to have a year's break then

going to quit to do 'anything else' cos she's shattered #ukedchat

colport 20:08 @john_at_muuua You trouble maker you ;-) #ukedchatjanwebb21 20:08 @CreativeEdu so what DID they want to do?!?!!! #UKEdChat

john_at_muuua 20:08if soldiers are fit for teaching are we fit for Iraq? transferable skills?!

#ukedchat

misshbond 20:08 @janwebb21 No idea! As NQT I'm trying to find balance between working

and spending time with my fella, let alone anything else! #ukedchat

deerwood 20:08@ianaddison Is it the workload or the lack of recognition for the work

done? #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:09@deerwood workload. I have 54 things on my to do list. Looking to work

for at least 5days of Xmas 'holidays' #ukedchat

philallman1 20:09#ukedchat teachfirst - the name itself implies you won't do it for the rest of

your working life.

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Creativeedu 20:09 @janwebb21 they saw teachfirst as a stepping stone that would beef up

their CVs for when they went to work in the city. #UKEdChat

mr_chadwick 20:09@john_at_muuua @colport True. I recently had ex-police student teacher

in my class (not the greatest!) #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:09@colport #ukedchat Sorry should clarify I appreciate how lucky I am to be

a teacher having worked in crappy jobs for 12 years

janwebb21 20:09@misshbond balance is always a challenge - whether new at it or not!!!!

#ukedchat

Kattle9 20:09 RT @Creativeedu: tech question - have been recommended twitterfall to

follow #UKEdChat can I write tweets on there too or just read?

misshbond 20:10 @janwebb21 Good thing is I can think about them and know at least I'm

sticking with it! Amazing moments outweigh workload for me #ukedchat

deerwood 20:10 not convinced that working elsewhere before being a teacher is always agood thing, we need young teachers with fresh ideas too #ukedchat

headteacher01 20:10 trying to support my wife with her workload as Y5 teacher certainly

opened my eyes - far too many tears and negative thoughts #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:10 @CreativeEdu what a shame? #UKEdChat

janwebb21 20:10@colport @Ideas_Factory I made it out of industry in 2 years!!! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:10@frogphilp #ukedchat Completely agree-more to do with SMT ineptitude-

but yes staff dev does come under this.

carolrainbow 20:10I do think that people often think working with small children may be an

easy option - and fun! Fun yes - easy no... #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:10

@dailydenouement Teaching is my 1st 'proper' job, but its what ive

always wanted 2 do so happy 2 put up with workload 4 vocation!

#ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:10@CreativeEdu Throw a 1:1 degree in front of a class and they can instantly

teach? seriously flawed theory behind that. #ukedchat

Catriona_O 20:10 #ukedchat!! not talking about quitting - I know loads who've come back as

adult learners &feel like they're fightinging 4 every day.s work

philallman1 20:10

RT @ianaddison: My friend's done 6years, she's having a baby to have a

year's break #ukedchat < you sure about that?!

philallman1 20:11#ukedchat Ave age of an NQT now is over 30 so that says something about

retraining rates.

Laura_987 20:11

RT @deerwood: not convinced that working elsewhere before being a

teacher is always a good thing, we need young teachers with fresh ideas

too #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:11@dailydenouement #ukedchat I agree having worked in similiar-like I said

earlier equiped me for stresses of teaching

john_at_muuua 20:11@philallman1 Ha Ha! teachfirst... something else later :-) #ukedchat but

seriously, is retention really an issue?

Creativeedu 20:11 Teachfirst makes little sense to me. by the time they are settled in they'rebuggering off to become bankers... #UKEdChat

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janwebb21 20:11

RT @misshbond: @janwebb21 Good thing is I can think about them and

know at least I'm sticking with it! Amazing moments outweigh workload

for me #ukedchat

CHAR0ULA 20:11 so much pressure because teachers have to answer to kids,parents,school

leaders,governors the government....#ukedchat

Reteach10 20:11 RT @ianaddison: Looking to work for at least 5days of Xmas 'holidays'

#ukedchat


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janwebb21 20:13 RT @mr_chadwick: Don't think teachers get professional credit/respect

from general public in same way doctors, nurses, etc do #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:13 RT @mr_chadwick: Don't think teachers get professional credit/respect

from general public in same way doctors, nurses, etc do #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:13 RT @carolrainbow: wages are not good at the start #ukedchat


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theteachinggame 20:15 @john_at_muuua #ukedchat I think that it easier to mistake teaching as a

"calling" than most professions.Many soon find out it is not theirs

deerwood 20:15but then if you joined teaching for the money you perhaps made the

wrong choice! #ukedchat 2/2

janwebb21 20:15

RT @ianaddison: God anyone training to be a teacher will look at

#ukedchat and wonder why they're doing it. Cos it's the best job in theworld of course

john_at_muuua 20:16@mr_chadwick why do we need respect? Do we become teachers to be

popular? :-) #ukedchat

deerwood 20:16 @colport absolutely agree with you there #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:16 RT @ianaddison: @carolrainbow I was enjoying teaching right from the

beginning, but maybe i'm a workaholic (ok, no maybe about it) #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:16@carolrainbow I was enjoying teaching right from the beginning, but

maybe i'm a workaholic (ok, no maybe about it) #ukedchat

sellyeve 20:16 RT@deerwood I think being a career changer has given me resilience & an

ability to cope with the extraneous pressure #ukedchat

deerwood 20:16@Crosbiei not sure pay is always better but job security certainly is!

#ukedchat

carolinebreyley 20:16 @philallman1 #ukedchat Asking from Scotland - isn't it expectation that

teach first will move on to something else after couple of years?

Reteach10 20:16@Crosbiei completely agree - vocation is the key thing and in fact for me

makes up for any lack of cash #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:16 RT @twfall: Log in on the left and then you can tweet from the 'New

Tweet' link at the top.re twitterfall - recommended for #UKEdChat

janwebb21 20:16@john_at_muuua does longevity mean burnout necessarily!?!! or

experience, bigger skills base, etc #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:16@ianaddison for those of us that survive the first five years it is - maybe

not so at the beginning? Is that the problem? #ukedchat

sellyeve 20:17RT @Reteach10: @Crosbiei completely agree - vocation is the key thing

and in fact for me makes up for any lack of cash #ukedchat

Catriona_O 20:17#ukedchat. don't know many teachers who joined only for money. Money

+ hols, different story.......

deerwood 20:17@carolrainbow that could be a useful plan especially if schools have tostart recruiting and training staff #ukedchat

philallman1 20:17

RT @john_at_muuua: @mr_chadwick why do we need respect? Do we

become teachers to be popular? :-) #ukedchat < because we're human

beings

Reteach10 20:17

@dailydenouement might make the job slightly easier if people

understood more about the job - with respect comes understanding?

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:17RT @misterel: ..... Great job, no day is the same, challenging, constantly

learning, fun, good holidays & pretty secure #ukedchat

theteachinggame 20:17 @john_at_muuua @ianaddison I think it's good not to paint teaching as

rosy. Prospectives should know all the facts #ukedchat

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Creativeedu 20:17It strikes me from these tweets that teaching is a vocation & people only

stay if it's in their heart to do so? #UKEdChat

Crosbiei 20:17RT @Reteach10: @Crosbiei vocation is key thing & in fact 4 me makes up 4

any lack of cash #ukedchat -> couldnt agree more!

Ideas_Factory 20:17 @deerwood #ukedchat I say differently-once you've been teaching for a

few years & willing to take on responsiblity-pay is much better

carolrainbow 20:17 I wonder if there would be a better retention rate if new teachers

partnered teachers for a year, then 1/2 time on own for a year? #ukedchat

dailydenouement 20:17 Do you think teaching is 'sold' properly? Are we unrealistic about the

realities of it? Do we give a true picture to trainees? #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:18anyone who can make it through the crazy #PGCE year should find real

teaching a doddle ;-) #UKEdChat

Crosbiei 20:18Is there a problem with people being pushed into the profession because

there's a view that 'anyone can do it'? #ukedchat

alxr1 20:18

My ex-Head called a colleague 'Maverick', Ofsted gave him a

commendation. Do some SMT's encourage 'maverick' innovators 2 leave?

#ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:18 @Smichael920 #ukedchat Agreed-boils down to crappy teacher training-I

learnt more from my 4 teaching placements than I ever did from uni

misshbond 20:18 RT @creativeedu: It strikes me from these tweets that teaching is a

vocation & people only stay if it's in their heart to do so? #UKEdChat

theteachinggame 20:18 @john_at_muuua @mr_chadwick I think respect is just a general need in

people's lives. It doesn't have to do with popularity #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:18 @janwebb21 never said necessarily (I'm in that crowd), but still, if that's

the choice what would you want? old timer burntout?#ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:18 @Ideas_Factory I'm sure that's part of it #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:18@ianaddison Yes I did too - some people are born to it - but I think others

could learn if supported #ukedchat

Laura_987 20:18@mikemcsharry What do you meant by 'detailed clutter'? #PGCE

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:18@john_at_muuua does populairity = respect? I don't think so! #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:18I do think trainees should be put into schools early and made to work,

would help separate those that can't manage #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:19@philallman1 depends on the head, depends on the maverick! #ukedchat

deerwood 20:19 @Ideas_Factory fair point but pay improves wiv responsibility in industry

too. In teaching you may get responsibility without rise #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:19@mr_chadwick #ukedchat Defo different now-pupils valued and play a

much more involved part in their edu-parents too

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janwebb21 20:19

RT @philallman1: RT @alxr1: My ex-Head called a coll 'Maverick',. Do sum

SMT's encourage 'maverick' innovators 2 leave? #ukedchat < yes they're

threatened

mbrayford 20:19 It makes me smile when they say thank you for teaching me & have

learned something new.Their happy faces make the difference.#ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:19 @CreativeEdu I don't think it eased off that much after my PGCE year#ukedchat

philallman1 20:19 RT @alxr1: My ex-Head called a coll 'Maverick',. Do sum SMT's encourage

'maverick' innovators 2 leave? #ukedchat < yes they're threatened

cleverfiend 20:19 I suspect a lot of people enter the profession expecting to share their

subject and educate, not to have to manage poor behaviour #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:19RT @Catriona_O: #ukedchat. don't know many teachers who joined only

for money. Money + hols, different story.......

theotheralig 20:19 I did all sorts jobs before 'returning to teaching'. I wonder how long I would

be able to do it if had more than 13 years to go! #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:20 @cleverfiend so job of the PGCE courses to provide more realistic exp,

help people see whether teaching is for them earlier on? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:20@Ideas_Factory so is the way forward actually more peer mentoring

schemes for new teachers? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:20 @colport I'd say no but as a BEd I'm biased ;) #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:20 @janwebb21 do we become teachers for respect then?! both approaches

are in need of psychotherapy. my point is they're irrelevant. #ukedchat

philallman1 20:20RT @janwebb21: @philallman1 depends on the head, depends on the

maverick! #ukedchat< true - I like it!

colport 20:20 @Crosbiei One of the hardest teaching years was my PGCE - opened my

eyes. Is the PG harder than the B,Ed in that respect? #ukedchat

mikemcsharry 20:20@Ideas_Factory I learned more in sandwich course placement than uni (a

few yrs ago) - same but different #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:20

RT @Ideas_Factory: @Smichael920 #ukedchat Agreed-boils down to

crappy teacher training-I learnt more from my 4 teaching placements than

I ever did from uni

headteacher01 20:20Clearly the challenge for leaders is to ensure that our staff have the right

balance of challenge and support #ukedchat

philallman1 20:20 RT @carolinebreyley #ukedchat Asking from Scotland - isn't it exp that

teach 1st will move on 2 something else after couple of years? < yes!

sellyeve 20:20 RT @Creativeedu: anyone who can make it through the crazy #PGCE year

should find real teaching a doddle ;-) #UKEdChat #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:20 @john_at_muuua Agree with others, I don't want/need to be popular, butI deserve credit for the difficult and skilled job I do? #ukedchat

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philallman1 20:21RT @Missif: ths article suggests that it's dn 2 the (variable) quality of skool

leadership http://j.mp/e6ufHc #ukedchat< all 2 oftn is

mikemcsharry 20:21

@Laura_987 The amount of 'homework' new teachers have to submit

appears amazing. I'd have never got through that AFTER 4yrs uni

#ukedchat

ianaddison 20:21A couple of ch thanked me for working with them today, They didn't need

to, but it made me smile #ukedchatdeerwood 20:21 @frogphilp I feel your pain #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:21

RT @Smichael920: @Ideas_Factory same! Teaching profession has to be

seen as a creative profession. That's part of teaching college role

#ukedchat

MissiF 20:21This article suggests that it's down to the (variable) quality of school

leadership http://j.mp/e6ufHc #ukedchat

Smichael920 20:21@Ideas_Factory same! Teaching profession has to be seen as a creative

profession. That's part of teaching college role #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:21 @john_at_muuua we don't become teachers FOR respect but in order todo our jobs a certain amount of respect is essential! #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:21 @colport I did PGCE, which was a crazy year, but just dont feel like ive

stopped since then.Think BEd is slightly less stressful. #ukedchat

deerwood 20:21@CreativeEdu but can anyone really be fully trained after only 1 year?

better to train everyone for 3 or 4 years? #ukedchat

frogphilp 20:21@deerwood no. At the moment it's Manage (as in 'cope' - just about get

by) Lead, Teach. #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:21 @alxr1 My HT, many years ago did, I introduced the internet to the school

in 1995 - she and gave me freedom to experiment #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:21My friends from uni were all on their second job within 5 years, why

should teaching be different? #UKEdChat

Reteach10 20:22

RT @Creativeedu: @deerwood I think teaching is like driving. Just because

you've got your license doesn't mean you've stopped learning...

#UKEdChat

esoldaveglasgow 20:22 @john_at_muuua #ukedchat Rtention per se is not good. In fact one bbc

HR chief aimed to increase "churn" to envigorate. Scary, but real.

deerwood 20:22 @ianaddison YES, children and (some) parents can give the best rewardsperhaps new teachers don't stay long enough to see that #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:22 @deerwood 3 or 4 years could be NQT and RQT but that training isn't

necessarily focused enough in day to day of school life #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:22 @deerwood I think teaching is like driving. Just because you've got your

license doesn't mean you've stopped learning... #UKEdChat

janwebb21 20:22

RT @misshbond: RT @creativeedu: It strikes me from these tweets that

teaching is a vocation & people only stay if it's in their heart to do so?

#UKEdChat

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colport 20:22 @philallman1 I thought it may spark reactions like that! LOL! My B'Ed

students don't realise the pace, IMHO #ukedchat (@Crosbiei )

philallman1 20:22 @mikemcsharry @Laura_987 #ukedchat 'meaningless paperwork'

theteachinggame 20:22 @john_at_muuua I just wrote a post on new teacher retention.Think it

goes well with ur comments on the current Ukedchat http://tiny.cc/nujy8

john_at_muuua 20:22I just don't think either popularity or respect is a reason for us to do this

job. perhaps that's what makes people leave. #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:22RT @carolrainbow: @ianaddison Yes I did too - some people are born to it -

but I think others could learn if supported #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:22Just poppingin. Moving to a new sch within 3 years can help keep the

enthusiasm. #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:22 @deerwood #ukedchat My pay is on a par with my bro who works for a

bank.Only difference is he gets huge 10-20k performance related bonus

theteachinggame 20:23 @john_at_muuua What we need to do is teach teachers how to fill the

needs for respect and popularity outside of the profession. #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:23@Crosbiei are there too many variables for performance related pay? i.e.

the students themselves! #ukedchat

deerwood 20:23@CreativeEdu True .. very true ... but I'm sure many drivers got their

licence free with cornflakes! #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:23 @janwebb21 respect from whom? The original thought behind this was

'public/media'. Not children. Not parents. Not management. #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:23 @Ideas_Factory @deerwood but I bet he gets less holiday? #UKEdChat

Catriona_O 20:23 @cleverfiend is there any connection between these? #ukedchat

cleverfiend 20:23 @Reteach10 I try to give my PGCE students a realistic experience in my

school - and point out similarities/differences with others #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:23 @deerwood #ukedchat I'd like us to get paid hourly & keep a 'clock' on

hours we actually work (like solicitors) we'd get a true pay/work

janwebb21 20:23@misshbond @creativeedu isn't that the same for any job/profession!

#UKEdChat

sellyeve 20:23 RT @janwebb21: we don't become teachers FOR respect but in order to do

our jobs a certain amount of respect is essential! #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:23Is it to do with society now? What was the time for teachers leaving 10

years ago? #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:23@Ideas_Factory With all the emphasis on our performance, should we get

performance-related bonuses as well? #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:24 @esoldaveglasgow interesting concept. but the problem is that school

managers create the churn by bad management not planning #ukedchat

deerwood 20:24 @Ideas_Factory I'd like teachers to get Council Tax reduction if live in same

LA as, in effect, they're paying their own wages #ukedchat

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janwebb21 20:24

RT @asober: like to tnk I went into teaching 'cause that was my vocation

and I wanted to make a positive difference in the lives of my pupils!

#ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:24 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay and

love it? (and share ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:24 @cleverfiend really good to hear - i am a mentor too. not sure theexperience is consistent across the board for PGCErs #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:24@Reteach10 But its usually seen as us not doing our job properly, rather

than variance in pupils. #ukedchat

philallman1 20:24 #ukedchat Past 20 yrs has seen shift in expectation. We R seen far more as

social workers, counsellors, panacea 4 societal ills than evr

asober 20:24 like to tnk I went into teaching 'cause that was my vocation and I wanted

to make a positive difference in the lives of my pupils! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:24 @janwebb21 #ukedchat Way forward is for practising Teachers to teachgraduates not has beens that having taught for years

mr_chadwick 20:24

RT @misshbond: I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and

achieve every day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0)

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:24 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay and

love it? (and share ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:24

@Crosbiei How can you judge performance when it is all about the

performance of children who do not fit a mould!

#ukedchat@Ideas_Factory

janwebb21 20:24

RT @theotheralig: I did all sorts jobs before 'returning to teaching'. I

wonder how long I would be able to do it if had more than 13 years to go!

#ukedchat

misshbond 20:24 I teach because I can inspire and watch children learn and achieve every

day. I know sometimes it's hard work. But I'm staying :0) #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:24What's different about us then? Why do we stay and love it? (and share

ideas at 8pm on Thurs night!!) #ukedchat

asober 20:25

RT @ianaddison: yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing

the look on their faces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it

#ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:25Maybe churn is a good thing, only the strong survive??? #UKEdChat

Reteach10 20:25@Crosbiei completely agree - FFT rules rather than a real understanding of

the students themselves! #ukedchat

JaneWoods3 20:25#ukedchat would be interesting to know if schools lose more teachers who

trained via 1yr PGCE or 4yr BA/ B.Ed. Anyone know?

janwebb21 20:25@Ideas_Factory isn't that the new model for ITT that is being proposed by

gov? #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:25 yesterday 90 KS1 ch had a skype chat with santa. Seeing the look on theirfaces made it all worthwhile. THAT is why we do it #ukedchat

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esoldaveglasgow 20:25Employment security is mostly very good in public sector, but this can

allow a lack of rigour in appraising effectiveness. #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:25@TheHeadsOffice You cant. But so rarely is that individuality taken into

consideration anyway! #ukedchat

colport 20:25 Performance Related Pay? How do we measure one teachers

performance? SATs? Formative Assessment? Poisoned chalice #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:25



#ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:25 RT @Ideas_Factory: @deerwood Id like us to get paid hourly & keep a

clock on hours we actually work then wed get a true pay/work #ukedchat

Laura_987 20:25@philallman1 @mikemcsharry Oh yes, the paperwork is mental!

#ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:25@janwebb21 No I don't think so, some jobs you might do just for money or

just for worklife balance etc #UKEdChatcleverfiend 20:26

@Catriona_O I think there is a link - good teachers don't plan explicitly for

behaviour - they plan for the students #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:26 RT @JaneWoods3: #ukedchat would be interesting to know if schools lose

more teachers who trained via 1yr PGCE or 4yr BA/ B.Ed. Anyone know?

colport 20:26@Crosbiei It then begs the question of the quality of that work! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:26@deerwood #ukedchat That is genius idea-discounts for council services

etc

ianaddison 20:26I did 2yrs at the LA, they wanted 9-5. I work 7:30tilwhenever, my

timesheet looked a mess.... #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:26



#ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:26



#ukedchat

mikemcsharry 20:26 @JaneWoods3 what about SCITT to compare? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:26 RT @deerwood: @CreativeEdu but can anyone really be fully trained after

only 1 year? better to train everyone for 3 or 4 years? #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:26 RT @deerwood Id like teachers to get Council Tax reduction if live in same

LA as, in effect, - paying their own wages - Great idea #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:26

RT @deerwood: @Ideas_Factory I'd like teachers to get Council Tax

reduction if live in same LA as, in effect, they're paying their own wages

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:26

RT @Reteach10: @cleverfiend so job of the PGCE courses to provide more

realistic exp, help people see whether teaching is for them earlier on?

#ukedchat

misshbond 20:26 @janwebb21 Definitely. But we're a bit biased ;0) #ukedchat

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#ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:26 @colport Number of hours worked? #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:26 @theteachinggame please explain that idea #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:27 #ukedchat are people more likely to stay in the profession if there is aculture of shared practice in a school? peer mentoring etc?

philallman1 20:27@politicsteacher #ukedchat I try to do this - call it 'the bubble' - sometimes

'reallife' bursts it!

Crosbiei 20:27 @colport vry tru. But then just b/c a class doesnt get gd overall SATs

results, does that mean the teacher is doin a gd job? #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:27Is there some connection between length of staying & type of training? Do

lecturuers know what happens in sch? #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:27

RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly

matters. Kids deserve the best & I try 2 make my skool a place whr they R1st

philallman1 20:27#ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly matters. Kids deserve the

best & I try 2 make my skool a place whr they R 1st

politicsteacher 20:27 don't think teaching has embraced flexible working (it is difficult to

adminster) but that is why some parents leave teaching #ukedchat

deerwood 20:27So could renegotiating terms and conditions of service help retain

teachers? #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:27 @misshbond: possibly the only reason to teach! #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:28

RT @deerwood: RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do

something that rlly matters. < that's something we should all remember..

teachers or not

john_at_muuua 20:28@CreativeEdu Maybe churn is a good thing, only the committed, talented,

inspired survive??? #ukedchat

deerwood 20:28 RT @philallman1: #ukedchat luv my job b/c I do something that rlly

matters. < that's something we should all remember.. teachers or not

colport 20:28 @Crosbiei Precisely...no! There are too many variables #ukedchat

CHAR0ULA 20:28its got something to do with the mindset and dedicattion of the teacher

#ukedchat

bw_clark 20:28 #ukedchat after 11 years teaching I was seconded to #LTS #consolarium.

Great experience & gives fresh perspective on my own teaching.

Reteach10 20:28 @politicsteacher technology certainly offers education that flexibility -

perhaps introduced in 6th form before ks4/3 #ukedchat

misshbond 20:28@reteach10 Apart from all the idiots who think they want to because of

the holidays! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:28 @janwebb21 #ukedchat Not sure about new ITT Jan-all I know is they need

a complete overhall-Why teach Lit classics but no SEN procedures-mad

philallman1 20:29#ukedchat same job in different LA's - does it have an effect - LA

pressures?

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Reteach10 20:29@misshbond can't help feeling that they don't understand the job or

teacher's intentions #ukedchat

deerwood 20:29@CreativeEdu That can be true but I think a teacher needs to stay around

for a while to see that, it's not an instant effect #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:29 @CHAR0ULA Shoudl we not aim to just get dedicated teachers into the

profession. Isnt that pretty much vital to being a gd teacher? #ukedchat

colport 20:29 RT @john_at_muuua: Maybe churn is a good thing, only the committed,

talented, inspired survive??? #ukedchat


16/34

Tree_Of 20:31#ukedchat surely every teacher chooses teaching to make a difference,

inspire, motivate and educate?!... #notsosure

TheHeadsOffice 20:31 @Reteach10 Why don't they use staffroom? #ukedchat

mikemcsharry 20:31retention and time limiting - most have seen cons and pros of that- really

KNOW your area etc vs. retired on job #ukedchat

philallman1 20:31#ukedchat secondment and paid sabbaticals were commonplace 30 years

ago - did this keep people in the profession

Reteach10 20:31

@janwebb21 ah i work in a school where discussions are happening to

question whether we need a staffroom anymore as no1 goes there

#ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:31@Tree_Of I know ppl who have been told to go into teaching becos they

didnt know what else to do! #ukedchat

colport 20:31@Ideas_Factory Wow, that would mix it up....like the idea #ukedchat

MissiF 20:31I've been a teacher for 13 yrs & I'm still learning how to do the job. That's

why it's hard & that's why I love it! #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:31 RT @mr_chadwick: What's different about us then? Why do we stay & love

it? (& share ideas) #ukedchat to some it's a job, others a vocation

janwebb21 20:31 RT @GaryH2UK: #ukedchat left teaching twice but keep coming back. Miss

the joy of working with the kids - but don't tell them I said that!

Ideas_Factory 20:32@CreativeEdu #ukedchat I still get more holidays than him but even taking

that into account he still earns more with Bonus

Crosbiei 20:32@colport @ideas_factory #ukedchat I have a similar unspoken agreement

with myself!

janwebb21 20:32@Reteach10 #ukedchat @guyshearer uses that sort of model witin his

school

Creativeedu 20:32 @colport it works a bit like that in Japan.You just get moved by the powers

that be when they need you elsewhere, you have no say! #UKEdChat

deerwood 20:32@Ideas_Factory There's a lot to be said for that ... changing schools

exposes you to new ideas and approaches #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:32@ianaddison #ukedchat Wouldn't work as too easily open to fraud etc

bevevans22 20:32@Crosbiei And then there are others (like me) who fall into it by accident!

#ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:33@ideas_factory but I bet you have a better sense of well being! #UKEdChat

Ideas_Factory 20:33 #ukedchat Taking Variety a stage further-How about making teachers work

at least once in an inner-city school before they've finished 10 yrs

carolrainbow 20:33 @philallman1 I think it helped - people could go and do something

different for a year - recharge batteries etc - ready to return #ukedchat

alxr1 20:33#ukedchat Do some survive because they work in schools that suit their

own education/social background? @colport

misshbond 20:33 @reteach10 Reckon they must make up a large majority of those who fallby the wayside within 5 years! #ukedchat

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ianaddison 20:33@TheHeadsOffice @Reteach10 I sat down in the staffroom for 2minutes

today, first time in over a week #ukedchat

colport 20:33@Crosbiei @CreativeEdu It doesn't seem that easy here. Tough comp for

jobs, and jobs set aside for known applicants #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:33 @Ideas_Factory Interesting idea about variety. Not sure I totally agree

with max term; what about secondment opps more available? #ukedchat

asober 20:33@Missif I like that! We are learners too! We mustn't forget it, or we will

stop striving for greater learning #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:33 @TheHeadsOffice size of the site (nrly 0.25 miles between my rm & stfrm)

& each dept has own office/stfrm. people just stay there #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:33@bevevans22 And has it turned out to be the right place for you?

#ukedchat

jimbo9848 20:33#ukedchat Life is very hard for new teachers, suoervision, inspection.

Drudgery and the notion of working very long hours

asober 20:34 RT @janwebb21: @Missif I'm still learning after 21 years!!! it's attitude to

new ideas etc that revives, refreshes, revitalises #ukedchat

colport 20:34@Crosbiei My point is, there are many hidden agendas with job adverts

#ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:34@CreativeEdu #ukedchat and I have the higher moral ground of course :^)

GaryAveryICT 20:34 @Ideas_Factory I took a year out to help consult with ICT for private

schools.Missed having my own class and single place of work. #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:34@Missif I'm still learning after 21 years!!! it's attitude to new ideas etc that

revives, refreshes, revitalises #ukedchat

alxr1 20:34 RT @Tree_Of: #ukedchat surely every teacher chooses teaching to make a

difference, inspire, motivate and educate?!... #notsosure

TheHeadsOffice 20:34 @mr_chadwick Like the idea of secondment. Often if the 'other side of the

fence' is seen it makes things a little more objective #ukedchat

philallman1 20:34@carolrainbow that's my point carol. Do we get ground down and need

time to remember why we're doing it? #ukedchat

colport 20:34

@alxr1 Oh yes...I have a few colleagues who have stayed and lives around

the school for 10-15 years. Will not go! #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:34@colport #ukedchat Then u need to find a way to set urself apart from the

rest of the 'rabble'!

bevevans22 20:34@Crosbiei Yes - but I am aware that I'm seen as 'not like the others'. Not

that it's ever bothered me :) #ukedchat

jimbo9848 20:35#ukedchat we need flexibility for teachers, 7 period days so you can earn

days off, much less planning required as norm as well

Reteach10 20:35

@ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice good man -i am a big fan of 1 central

staffroom. you share so many more ideas not just subject based!

#ukedchat

RealLara 20:35 Think if i'd have carried on much longer at that point I'd have gotdisillusioned and left for good #ukedchat

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Ideas_Factory 20:35@GaryAveryICT #ukedchat But the change obviously made you realise that

you enjoyed being at the chalkface-bingo!

Creativeedu 20:35Do people leave more now than they used to. A bit like how it's 'okay' to

get divorced nowadays? #UKEdChat

john_at_muuua 20:35RT @bevevans22: @ianaddison I don't go in the staffroom unless there's a

meeting there at the end of the day...#ukedchat ditto

philallman1 20:35 @reallara consultancy - #darkside #ukedchat :)Crosbiei 20:35 @colport Very true. #ukedchat

colport 20:35@CreativeEdu I thought it would happen within an agreed radius

#ukedchat

esoldaveglasgow 20:35 @john_at_muuua Agree. I don't advocate churning, but it does take

creative leadership to prevent complacency in staffrooms.#ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:35@janwebb21 totally agree. Years in the job and I'm as fresh as yesterday

but better experienced. #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:35

RT @philallman1: #ukedchat I learn new things everyday. Someone will

find out one day I don't have all the answers!!! #goingtogetfoundout#ukedchat

bevevans22 20:35@ianaddison I don't go in the staffroom unless there's a meeting there at

the end of the day...#ukedchat

philallman1 20:35 #ukedchat I learn new things everyday. Someone will find out one day I

don't have all the answers!!! #goingtogetfoundout #ukedchat

RealLara 20:35 I think it helps to have a career break quite early on. I did 5 years then dud

consultancy work for 3 years before returning #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:35@bevevans22 Thats good. Teachers who never planned to be teachers

add a different dimension to the team! #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:35 @colport not necessarily a good thing, you can get sent hundreds of miles

away to a new school and just have to start a new life! #UKEdChat

Reteach10 20:36 @jimbo9848 the google model of working is a brilliant one if it could be

applied to teachers and teaching (impractical?) #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:36 @philallman1 consultancy=#darkside?! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:36

@mr_chadwick #ukedchat Love secondment idea-I did my NPQH

placement in secondary-just to widen my exp & see if they did things

differently

deerwood 20:36@CreativeEdu that's ironic, did you know at one time (not too long ago)

teachers were not allowed to get married? #ukedchat

GaryAveryICT 20:36@Ideas_Factory yep, got fed up suggesting things to do, wanted to try

them myself.. #ukedchat

ianaddison 20:36@bevevans22 i go to get tea, but never have chance to sit down - i find

break/lunch a great time to work #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:36@bevevans22 Some staffroom can just create negativity that does not

help! #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:36@john_at_muuua it's about being comfortable with being out of our

comfort zone that helps us grow as professionals! #ukedchat

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carolrainbow 20:36 @philallman1 Yes I think you have hit on a very important point there - I

had forgotten all about them -remember people enthused #ukedchat


RT @RealLara: Really important to change schools or have chance to

observe in other schools. Need to see there are different approaches

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:37 #ukedchat -more than half way through and some tremendous pointsbeing made

asober 20:37 I am on secondment now and I have learnt a lot already 'cause I have time

to reflect on my practice and Philosophy of learning #ukedchat

colport 20:37 @deerwood Is there? Where? #ukedchat ;-)

philallman1 20:37RT @deerwood: Perhaps teachers leave the profession because they

discover there is life beyond school #ukedchat< there is?! :)

Tree_Of 20:37#ukedchat I began teaching degree at 18 yrs of age. First piece of advice i

was given from a headteacher "dont smile till xmas"....

Creativeedu 20:37 I don't teach but I moved out of education and back in again quite early on.

The career break made me more motivated+fresh ideas #UKEdChat

RealLara 20:37 Really important to change schools or have chance to observe in other

schools. Need to see there are different approaches #ukedchat

jowinchester 20:37 @ianaddison I love the idea that nonparents have that ayear with a baby is

a break - some thongs we all have to learn the hard way #ukedchat

deerwood 20:37Perhaps teachers leave the profession because they discover there is life

beyond school #ukedchat

sellyeve 20:37Govt assume loss of 25% of BEd trainees compared with 11% PGCE. (Not

very recent data) #ukedchat

colport 20:37@Joga5 Would that lose the personal approach that primary schools can

offer? #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:38@GaryAveryICT #ukedchat There is a certain freedom being a teacher!

Creativeedu 20:38 @jimbo9848 the google model of working is a brilliant one if it could be

applied to teachers and teaching (impractical?) #ukedchat


20/34

bevevans22 20:38@ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice Our's is too busy. I eat lunch in a quieter

room . I can discuss/meet with no distractions #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:38 @deerwood really? why? #UKEdChat

redtedart 20:38Easy xmas baubles for all ages.. http://bit.ly/fN0NpH #crafts #ukedchat

#teachpreschool #artchat

philallman1 20:38 RT @Tree_Of: #ukedchat < tempted to use a rude word here!>First pieceof advice i was given from a headteacher "dont smile till xmas"....

Reteach10 20:38 RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can really support teachers who are

struggling though - keep them upbeat and offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:38 @deerwood #ukedchat Even now relationships between colleagues is

frowned upon and is still a sacking offence in some church schools

john_at_muuua 20:38 @janwebb21 teacher training is continuous. Not just PGCE year. surely

everyone therefore has the right to say 'no' and leave. #ukedchatCrosbiei 20:38

@Tree_Of And did u manage it. I never have been able to get passed the

1st week. Love working with kids! #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:38 @reallara there is a movement to go on 'learning journeys' between

schools. not sure if that is up and running in our lea yer #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:38staffrooms can really support teachers who are struggling though - keep

them upbeat and offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:39 @bevevans22: @ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice Ours was like the grave!

pros & cons for each i suppose! the tas use it as an office now #ukedchat

cleverfiend 20:39 Are there any careers that compliment teaching - perhaps where we could

see two way movement to aid recruitment & relieve pressure #ukedchat

jimbo9848 20:39#ukedchat Hard Question? Why aren't yr lessons for the term all on the

VLE and yr wiki on Jan 1st? Then you manage the learning.

john_at_muuua 20:39@deerwood I think they leave because they cannot balance life beyond

school with life in school. #ukedchat work/life balance

janwebb21 20:39

RT @bevevans22: RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can support teachers

who are struggling though - keep them upbeat & offer help, ideas etc

#ukedchat Are 18yr olds not as good at career decisions as 22yr olds?

bevevans22 20:39 RT @carolrainbow: staffrooms can support teachers who are struggling

though - keep them upbeat & offer help, ideas etc #ukedchat


21/34

jowinchester 20:39 #ukedchat many teachers have a break do something else & return with

more experience - it's a good thing & not a new idea :Baudelaire

scholasticuk 20:39RT @deerwood: So could renegotiating terms and conditions of service

help retain teachers? #ukedchat

jodieworld 20:39 #ukedchat Sir Tim Brighouse Keynote speech at LGFL conference 2009 -never stay in same role more than 5 years. Some red faces in THAT room!

janwebb21 20:39 @john_at_muuua absolutely agree about ongoing cpd - but if we don't

want to lose highly skillful professionals we need to ensure.. #ukedchat

MoodleMcKean 20:39

Top Three Must Reads For Graduate Students Virtual School

Meanderings http://bit.ly/ibMCno #pgce #ntchat #edtech #elearning

#ukedchat

bevevans22 20:40 @McDroll @ianaddison In a big school like mine there are up to 20/30 in

there. People tend to sit in little groups anyway #ukedchatsellyeve 20:40

factors affecting teachers' decisions to leave teaching http://bit.ly/g0NIHc

#ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:40 but are you 'normal' ;-) @TheHeadsOffice #UKEdChat

mikemcsharry 20:40@TheHeadsOffice should teachers 'second' elsewhere? #ukedchat

RealLara 20:40@Reteach10 We've had 'learning walks' but out of school hours so not as

useful #ukedchat

philallman1 20:40RT @TheHeadsOffice: Would schools welcome secondments? Is it

'manageable'? #ukedchat< yes if it was universal

scholasticuk 20:40RT @TheHeadsOffice: Would schools welcome secondments? Is it

'manageable'? #ukedchat

asober 20:40 @colport that might be a good, but it needs to be linked to Learning and

Teaching!?! Could it be on something not related to Ed? #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:40 RT @alxr1: #ukedchat Do some survive because they work in schools that

suit their own education/social background? @colport

Ideas_Factory 20:40 @mr_chadwick #ukedchat There's the rub-if a statutory thing teachers

would have to do it-most dont like change and happy to stay & stagnate

Creativeedu 20:40 @Ideas_Factory @deerwood good job it doesn't apply at our office, we're

all married to each other! (I married in to be fair...) #UKEdChat

TheHeadsOffice 20:40Would schools welcome secondments? Is it 'manageable'? #ukedchat

GaryAveryICT 20:40I am still where I started as a GTP 8 Years ago (minus the year out)

#ukedchat

deerwood 20:40 @mikemcsharry yes, I agree like a closed loop #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:41 @reallara should be in school time to give msg of whole school

development not just those who want to in their own time! #ukedchatCrosbiei 20:41 @Tree_Of I completely agree! #ukedchat

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john_at_muuua 20:41 @janwebb21 but at the same time everyone, no matter how highly skilled,

has a right to leave. Forcing people to stay is worse #ukedchat

GaryAveryICT 20:41@mikemcsharry I bet we will have to if outstanding schools take over

struggling ones. #ukedchat

Tree_Of 20:41@Crosbiei i refused to take the advice on board!! Its the worst advice i've

ever heard #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 20:41If staffrooms can support or deter it must be down to school ethos /

environment #ukedchat

philallman1 20:41@reallara learning walks OUTSDIE SCHOOL HOURS - oxymoron surely?

#ukedchat

deerwood 20:41@john_at_muuua excellent point! #ukedchat work/life balance is

important and difficult for many teachers

jimbo9848 20:41RT @GaryAveryICT: I am still where I started as a GTP 8 Years ago (minus

the year out) #ukedchat try Tomorrow's Heads!

janwebb21 20:41

RT @Ideas_Factory: #ukedchat Taking Variety a stage further-How about

making teachers work at least once in an inner-city school before they'vefinished 10 yrs

carolrainbow 20:41CPD - however it comes - with or without secondment is crucial though -

lack of only leads to frustration #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:42 Maybe the problem goes back further, maybe #PGCE screening isn't good

enough and unsuitable candidates are being trained? #UKEdChat

Reteach10 20:42RT @TheHeadsOffice: If staffrooms can support or deter it must be down

to school ethos / environment #ukedchat


23/34

janwebb21 20:42

RT @Reteach10: @ianaddison @TheHeadsOffice good man -i am a big fan

of 1 central staffroom. you share so many more ideas not just subject

based! #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:42RT @philallman1: @reallara learning walks OUTSDIE SCHOOL HOURS -

oxymoron surely? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:43 RT @carolrainbow: & skool ethos etc is mostly dn 2 the head & SMT - somuch is on the shuolders of the leaders #ukedchat


24/34

janwebb21 20:44RT @colport: @Joga5 Would that lose the personal approach that primary

schools can offer? #ukedchat

deerwood 20:44 RT @CliveBuckley: The day you start thinking you are a really good teacher

you start being a poor one #ukedchat < or time to prove it!

TheHeadsOffice 20:44 RT @janwebb21: RT @CliveBuckley: The day you start thinking you are areally good teacher you start being a poor one #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:44 @Tree_Of but adults know the punchline. :-) #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:44 @Ideas_Factory secondment 0 whatever type - gives much deeper insight!

have found that from visiting diff schools! #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:45 RT @philallman1: RT @deerwood: Perhaps teachers leave the profession

because they discover there is life beyond school #ukedchat< there is?! :)

Crosbiei 20:45

RT @carolrainbow: @jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they

seem to be schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personaltraining #ukedchat

stevebunce 20:45 RT @JamiePortman: New Blog Post:

jimbo9848 20:45#ukedchat Why worry? Free schools can emply anyone with zero training.

philallman1 20:45RT @bevevans22: We tend 2 have classes but also teachers wrkn 2 their

strengths #ukedchat< my plan for next year!

carolrainbow 20:45

@jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they seem to be

schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personal training

#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:45@deerwood #ukedchat but it's often having a life beyond school that

makes us a better teacher!!!

mooshtang 20:45#ukedchat Plus I want to go and do my Ed Psych doctorate at some point

and couldn't have done that with BEd.

siavogel 20:45 RT @deerwood Why do teachers leave the profession, perhaps because

they're no longer treated like profs http://bit.ly/i1huom #ukedchat #yam

Creativeedu 20:45 RT @carolrainbow: NHS has stautory annual training in handling, finance,

reporting and maintaining skills. Time that teachers did? #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:45

@Tree_Of #ukedchat I may smile 11 times but I laugh 374 times (especially

at that made up stat)

thedippyhippy 20:46I blogged about why I love teaching only this week! http://bit.ly/6j8ml3

#ukedchat

ToddAHoffman 20:46 RT @Creativeedu: RT @colport: Join @janwebb21 for #ukedchat "Why do

so many new teachers leave within 5 years and how we can reduce drain?"

jowinchester 20:46

RT @Creativeedu: Maybe the problem goes back further, maybe #PGCE

screening isn't good enough and unsuitable candidates are being trained?

#UKEdChat

jimbo9848 20:46@carolrainbow #ukedchat NHS also has supervision which makes

performance management look so ill-conceived!!

TheHeadsOffice 20:46Do colleges lose money if students leave before the end of the course?

They seem reluctant to fail unsuitable types. #ukedchat

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janwebb21 20:46 @asober me too! #ukedchat

RealLara 20:46 @philallman1 Teachers can learn too!! Just a flavour of how things

worked, chance to discuss, learning environment. Whole cluster #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:46

RT @Smichael920: Important 4 teachers 2 get out of the classroom &c

what others r doing in theirs. We can make more of this 2 support new

staff#ukedchat

janwebb21 20:46

RT @Smichael920: Important 4 teachers 2 get out of the classroom &c

what others r doing in theirs. We can make more of this 2 support new

staff#ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:46RT @Tree_Of: A nursery child smiles on average 374 times per day. An

adult.... 11 #ukedchat


26/34

esoldaveglasgow 20:48 @philallman1 #ukedchat Shift is appropriate in line with good pedagogy.

Teaching to think/live effectively, not facts and formulae

Creativeedu 20:48 @GaryAveryICT ha! I'll work on that... #UKEdChat

Crosbiei 20:48@CreativeEdu #ukedchat Of course, becos why will a great teacher

necessarily be a good head? Not the same skills needed!

janwebb21 20:48 @CreativeEdu @TheHeadsOffice what IS normal? #UKEdChat

Ideas_Factory 20:48

#ukedchat Teachers leave because of the constant changing of ethos

everytime a new government comes in.NOT OUR FAULT! [My Dummy's

out now]

amweston 20:48 @carolrainbow they can sometimes have the opposite effect - can be

isolating depending on situation/politics of school #ukedchat

john_at_muuua 20:48 PGCE is just the start of life-long CPD.#ukedchat

misshbond 20:48 RT @philallman1: @reallara if we ever lose the ability to learn then we

really have lost the plot and should go! #ukedchat


27/34

john_at_muuua 20:50RT @Crosbiei: @reallara #ukedchat Change it an essential part of the job.

Knowledge and skills needed are constantly changing

jimbo9848 20:50RT @reallara: @Ideas_Factory Frightening number of teachers dislike/fear

change. Yes, worrying #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:50@reallara #ukedchat Change it an essential part of the job. Knowledge and

skills needed are constantly changing

philallman1 20:50 RT @esoldaveglasgow: #ukedchat Shift is appropriate in line with good

pedagogy. Teaching to think/live effectively, not facts and formulae

bevevans22 20:50 @carolrainbow @philallman1 specialists work in PE, Welsh, Art, Music &

Forest Schools - they still teach a range of other subjects #ukedchat

carolrainbow 20:50@philallman1 absolutely true - 1 day's training with no follow-up, feedback

etc not the ideal though often the case #ukedchat

deerwood 20:51RT @jimbo9848: RT @Crosbiei: @reallara #ukedchat Change is progress >>> Agreed! #ukedchat

Creativeedu 20:55 RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Would schools be more conducive to learning ifhead teacher were managers rather than promoted teachers? I agree

Reteach10 20:55 @headteacher01 other advantage: provides change of scene where you

are not talking about specific students but specific cpd needs #ukedchat

janwebb21 20:55

RT @jowinchester: #ukedchat srcondments should not be in schools we

rusk an overly insular & naval-gazing outlook if we've never seen anything

outside school

philallman1 20:55 RT @mr_chadwick: Will recession attract more into the profession? Will

they all be here in 5yrs? #ukedchat < yes to 1st No to 2nd

john_at_muuua 20:55thanks for a great evening playing devil's advocate. best wishes to you all.

#ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:55@john_at_muuua #ukedchat No. Some were however kicked out when

they couldnt actually teach!

ColinGoffin 20:55I'm still not sure ITT prepares well enough for the interpersonal and

relationship skills that are key to teaching today #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:55 RT @GaryH2UK: @deerwood #ukedchat 1 of my old heads used to say 'if

you stand still long enough everyone else will catch you up' -love that

mr_chadwick 20:55

Will recession attract more into the profession? Will they all be here in

5yrs? #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:55 #ukedchat Change is only good if the change is for the right reasons-Not

good if changing the whole curric cos it wasn't a tory idea

Creativeedu 20:55Is it a problem to be taught until 21, then instantly go into teaching - may

leave as just fed up of the classroom? #UKEdChat

Mallrat_uk 20:55@creativeedu #ukedchat also NQT year is too easy to pass! fellow teacher

failed 2 out of 3 obs in final term and still passed!

jimbo9848 20:55 RT @GaryH2UK: @deerwood #ukedchat one of my old heads used to say

'if you stand still long enough everyone else will catch you up' Dreadful!

jimbo9848 20:56ukedchat teachers are better qualified now than ever. Wait until the

squaddies with PTS disorder arrive in staffrooms!!

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Ideas_Factory 20:56 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Good q-many of the academies have managers from

outside edu-some work others fail. Not conclusive

Creativeedu 20:56Re Heads discussion. I for one would LOVE to be a head but would HATE to

be a teacher... #UKEdChat

Crosbiei 20:56@philallman1 #ukedchat But isnt a head's job to manage the staff and

utilise their expertise in educating?

Mallrat_uk 20:56@Crosbiei @creativeedu #ukedchat yep several quit ours, but a few

passed even though not great teachers!

john_at_muuua 20:56@Crosbiei damn. there goes my theory of retention. :-( #ukedchat

Reteach10 20:56

RT @Ideas_Factory: #ukedchat Change is only good if the change is for the

right reasons-Not good if changing the whole curric cos it wasn't a tory

idea

janwebb21 20:56 @CliveBuckley a very cynical reply, Clive!!!!! #ukedchat

philallman1 20:56RT @john_at_muuua: thanks for a great evening playing devil's advocate.

best wishes to you all. #ukedchat< surely not ;)

janwebb21 20:57

RT @carolrainbow: @jimbo9848 Schools have inset days - but often they

seem to be schoolwide when maybe teachers need very specific personal

training #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:57RT @Mallrat_uk: @Crosbiei @creativeedu #ukedchat yep several quit

ours, but a few passed even though not great teachers!

Crosbiei 20:57@Ideas_Factory #ukedchat But is that down to the person or their

background?

Ideas_Factory 20:57RT @mr_chadwick: Will recession attract more into the profession? Will

they all be here in 5yrs? #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 20:57 RT @CreativeEdu: I for one would LOVE to be a head but would HATE to

be a teacher... #UKEdChat < Would that make you a good Head?

RealLara 20:57 RT @JaneWoods3: #ukedchat Maybe teachers should all spend a year

working in ITT every 5 years or so.


31/34

headteacher01 20:58 @CreativeEdu @Crosbiei disagree, heads need to understand how children

learn in order to ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat

jimbo9848 20:58#ukedchat 80%of HTs love the job, 80% of SLTs don't want it. Funny

messages there.

janwebb21 20:58@carolrainbow teachers need personalised learning just like the children

do! #ukedchat

Crosbiei 20:59 #ukedchat Cant heads just be people who maximise teachers' potential to

develop their pupils? Cant this be done just by talking to teachers?

Ideas_Factory 20:59

RT @Smichael920: @Ideas_Factory brings us back 2 original question.

Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the exodus! 4got

#ukedchat!

jimbo9848 20:59 #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in excellent cpd

carolrainbow 20:59@janwebb21 Absolutely - with support and followup to move them

forward #ukedchat

Ideas_Factory 20:59 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Prob a bit of both-an academic did a study of

successful HT-to see if common denominators-none were found!

philallman1 20:59 RT @reallara: @mikemcsharry @philallman1 I do a pretty mean lesson on

composing using just a piece of A4 scrap paper! #ukedchat< can't wait!

philallman1 20:59 RT @headteacher01: disagree, heads need to understand how children

learn in order to ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat < yep!

Creativeedu 21:00@mr_chadwick I manage and lead well, I am good with children, I just

wouldn't like to teach. I think I'd be a good head #UKEdChat

Ideas_Factory 21:00 @Crosbiei #ukedchat Yep that's the Coaching model

jimbo9848 21:00RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Heads are not a separate race, some are better

than others at talk

carolrainbow 21:00 @Ideas_Factory @Smichael920 I am sure it does not help!!

philallman1 21:00@Crosbiei no - I go to the butchers each week but I don't suggest how he

should cut my meat for me! #ukedchat

TheHeadsOffice 21:00 RT @philallman1: RT @headteacher01: HTs need 2 understand how chn

learn 2 ensure that this is what is happening #ukedchat >Is that teaching?

ukedchat 21:00 Many thanks to @janwebb21 for hosting this #ukedchat session.#ukedchat returns after Christmas break on 6th January. Happy Christmas

janwebb21 21:00RT @jimbo9848: #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in

excellent cpd

bevevans22 21:00RT @jimbo9848: #ukedchat I see a lot of teachers here engaging in

excellent cpd


32/34

TheHeadsOffice 21:01 RT @Crosbiei: #ukedchat Cant HT be ppl who max teachers' potential to

develop their pupils? Cant this be done by talking to teachers?>YES!

Crosbiei 21:01@philallman1 #ukedchat But does he ask u how u would like your meat

cut? Its all about collaboration.

misshbond 21:01Wow - that was the fastest hour of my life! So many good points raised.

Thanks all :0) #ukedchat

alxr1 21:01Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the exodus! #ukedchat!

>hard to walk on shifting sand

Arakwai 21:01 #ukedchat In my LEA there have been regular redundancies over the last 5

years :-( Newish teachers are vulnerable and may find other careers

janwebb21 21:01 #ukedchat hard to keep up with everyone!

philallman1 21:01 RT @TheHeadsOffice: HTs need 2 understand how chn learn 2 ensure that

this is what is happening #ukedchat >Is that teaching?< no its leading

mdpkeenan 21:01 #ukedchat impending changes to curriculum mean nothing - doing whatyou can to engage children, this changes every day!

RealLara 21:01More formal mentoring/buddy system across schools throughout careers

as wanted/needed might help. Virtually?#ukedchat

janwebb21 21:01 I can't believe it's 9pm already!!! thanks to everyone for a most interesting

#ukedchat this week! so many interesting points it's been ...

briankotts 21:01@korlingsord Half of boys, age five, 'struggling in basics'

http://bbc.in/hfj1vd /via @bbcnews #edchat #ukedchat

Crosbiei 21:01 #ukedchat Is it just me, or does the hour from 8-9 go very quickly?

Crosbiei 21:02@jimbo9848 #ukedchat Isnt the ability to communicate and work with

teachers necessary to be a head?

Ideas_Factory 21:02Thankyou @janwebb21 and one and all for a most brilliant #ukedchat I

swear they're getting better...

jimbo9848 21:02 #ukedchat thanks all and a happy christmas

sellyeve 21:02 many thanks & especially to @janwebb21. #ukedchat

Creativeedu 21:02 @janwebb21 thanks for a great #UKEdchat. Fantastic as ever!

carolrainbow 21:02 Happy Christmas everyone - thanks for all 2010 #ukedchats Thanks to

@janwebb21 for hosting this session - see you 6th Jan :-) #ukedchat


@janwebb21 Many thanks. Apologies for being late & only dipping in!

#ukedchat

philallman1 21:03 RT @Joga5: Hey I just seen it is me doing the first #ukedchat of 2011. What

do you want to talk about then?< Hogmanay or Hootenay? :)

Ideas_Factory 21:03RT @alxr1: "Maybe government meddling in Ed is the route of the

exodus!" #ukedchat! >hard to walk on shifting sand

janwebb21 21:03 #ukedchat you're all very welcome!! have a fantastic Christmas everyone

and look forward to joining @Joga5 at the first new year #ukedchat!

Creativeedu 21:03 @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseI'malosertoo #UKEdChat

JfB57 21:03RT @CreativeEdu: @mr_chadwick I manage/lead well, Im good withchildren, wouldn't like 2 teach. Think I'd be a good head #UKEdChat>Thats

me!

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deerwood 21:03@McDroll schools, government, LAs, Daily Mail care about policies ... who

cares about children? #ukedchat

philallman1 21:03 #ukedchat thanks all - as ever - really great!

mdpkeenan 21:04#ukedchat teacher training lessons 1,2 and 3 ( to misquote clint Eastwood) -

improvise, adapt, overcome.

TheHeadsOffice 21:04 RT @Crosbiei: @jimbo9848 #ukedchat Isnt the ability to communicate and

work with teachers necessary to be a head? >No its essential!

Tree_Of 21:04 @LiamConway there is more than one flaw! #ukedchat

Crosbiei 21:04RT @CreativeEdu: @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseImalosertoo

#UKEdChat

mooshtang 21:04#ukedchat Actually I think it's ridic to say only ppl trained in 'education'

should teach. Think of the value of musicians, artists,

Reteach10 21:05 #ukedchat thanks to everyone for a really good discussion - first and

definitely not the last time. mind stewing with ideas. merry xmas

mr_chadwick 21:05@CreativeEdu I'm sure YOU would. Think opening up Headship in that way

could be slippery slope. #ukedchat

mooshtang 21:05 #ukedchat scientists, mathematicians, film makers, linguists, psychologists,

mathematicians, english grads etc could bring to the table

TheHeadsOffice 21:05 RT @CreativeEdu: @Ideas_Factory I'm up for that #becauseI'malosertoo

#UKEdChat >I'm not busy next Thurs either! ;)

Crosbiei 21:05@TheHeadsOffice #ukedchat Thanks. That was the word I was looking for!

mooshtang 21:06 A PGCE frm a good institution IS enough training to teach. You learn more

on the job once you are there after any training course #ukedchat

mr_chadwick 21:06Best #ukedchat yet. (Although I've only done a few) Really great

discussion. Thanks @janwebb21 et al

janwebb21 21:06@Reteach10 @misshbond #ukedchat and many thanks to all those new to

#ukedchat for joining us!

CHAR0ULA 21:07forgot how enjoyable #ukedchat is.I havent attended for ages.Thank youall.Thank you @janwebb21

janwebb21 21:07 RT @Ideas_Factory: @mikemcsharry unofficial official non-ukchat next

Thursday then (isn't that just like 'normal' twitter..) #ukedchat

janwebb21 21:07@mr_chadwick I agree - def one of the best #ukedchat! and there was me

thinking everyone would be out at Christmas parties!!!

janwebb21 21:08@CHAR0ULA I forgot how fast it goes when moderating!!!! #ukedchat

philallman1 21:08 @janwebb21 I agree - def one of the best #ukedchat! and there was methinking everyone would be out at Christmas parties!!!< #sadpeople

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janwebb21 21:09@NickiA10 LOL! considering we had ours last night, I think I did well to stay

awake for #ukedchat!!!!

JaneWoods3 21:10@janwebb21 Thanks Jan...really interesting debate tonight! #ukedchat

ZoeAndrewsAST 21:11 @mooshtang #ukedchat Training is def not enough, know many people

who trained in a top uk uni last 5 yrs and not made it past 2 years in sch

ukedchat 21:11@Ideas_Factory If you want to host a 'Christmas Special', then go for it :-)

deerwood 21:12RT @deerwood: @janwebb21 well done Jan, great #ukedchat tonight ..

over far too soon darn Mac forgot where #key was

Creativeedu 21:12 Top ten blog posts (and the rest..) http://ow.ly/3qsVA

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Ukedchat Archive 16 December 2010

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