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On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Amin Husain wrote:All,

I am sure I know many of you (e.g. Cesar, Isham, etc.) from LibertySquare. I am on the facilitation working group and others. I agreewith all of you on the urgency of demands and/or vision/goals. I think

that process can run parallel with Principles of Solidarity. I also thinkthe Communique statement looks great as it has been revised(reserving judgment on the specific items mentioned, for the moment).I note that there is a consensus that the issue of demands/vision/goalsin the context (or not) of the communique is on the agenda and shouldbe so this evening at 7pm. If so, from the email exchanges, I thinkthat is going to be a very difficult GA because of the competingapproaches and understandings. I am concerned we will not get farenough. If I may respectfully suggest, in the interest of moving thediscussion and its resolution along, that those who have proposedspecific formulations here or at the GA to familiarize themselves withthe competing proposal and try to be ready to make friendly

amendment and get on board one or the other competing proposals,and have suggestions as point of compromise. This may help a greatdeal. Recognize that the GA, from experience, gets paralyzed if thereare competing proposals to the body. We are likely to end up going incircles, and that may cause great damage to the cause, because peoplethat are sitting in new on the GA will not like what they see. This is

just a suggestion. We are doing great, and we can figure this out. Iwill say this. Let us not panic or get frustrated about not havingdemands; let's work hard on formulating them as soon as possible.

Amin

Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.com

mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofLuis Moreno-Caballud

To: [email protected]

Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [september17discuss] Huge Possibilities for Outreach this Weekend!!! (Slutwalk, Rally for aNuke-Free World, The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow)

Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 11:52:38 AM

Yes! and physically bring those marches to Zucotti, as it happened with the Troy Davis march!

On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Will wrote:

> Hey beautiful people,>> Last Saturday's march was amazing until it ended in extreme police> brutality, and I have a suggestion for how we can follow up that march> with something potentially even bigger and in my opinion infinitely> more significant.>> This Saturday is a huge day for marches in NYC, with Slutwalk, the> Rally for a Nuke-Free World, both of which will likely draw about> 1,000 people each, and an event for the Campaign to End the New Jim

> Crow. (I'll add more info about each of these protests below.)> Unfortunately each of these events is planned for more or less the> same time, which I think is indicative of the current level of> division within the left, or at least its severe lack of> coordination.>> For us to organize a large march for the same time would show a huge> lack of solidarity and I strongly urge that we avoid doing this!>> I suggest that instead we organize ourselves into three groups based> upon which event we would like to identify with this Saturday (tough> choice I know!) and mobilize the mass of ourselves to show up in force> at these events. I don't suggest that we organize marches from the> occupation to these events, first because we need to save our energy> for them and second because of the risk of drawing more police> brutality to ourselves and also to the other protesters involved in> these events.>> This is a golden opportunity for us to further project our reach> beyond the financial district, build our own movement, and show our> solidarity and establish ties with the rest of the NYC left. We can> make Occupy Wall Street a place where previously fragmented segments> of the left can find a unifying cause and a safe place to build> campaigns around their specific issues. I know for sure that after> the police crackdown on us this past Saturday we gained a lot of> sympathy from long-time activists in the city who might have been> skeptical about us before and recognition that we are a force to be

> reckoned with. Let's show NYC, the country and the world that Occupy> Wall Street is a place where different sections of the left can come> together and unite around a common purpose.>> In solidarity,>> Will>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> Slutwalk NYC - Union Square - Noon> http://slutwalknyc.com/


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://slutwalknyc.com/http://slutwalknyc.com/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqw>> No matter who you are> No matter where you work> No matter how you identify> No matter how you flirt> No matter what you wear> No matter whom you choose to love

> No matter what you said before:>> NO ONE has the right to touch you without your consent. SlutWalk NYC> is part of a worldwide grassroots movement challenging rape culture,> victim-blaming and slut-shaming, and working to end sexual and> domestic violence.>> Note on the name: This movement is a response to what the police> commissioner of Toronto said at a gathering, that if women didn't> dress like sluts, they wouldn't become victims of violence. This has> already spawned huge marches across Canada, the US and the world> (Mexico City, Honduras, Mumbai, etc)> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> Rally for a Nuclear-Free Future - Pier 95 Hudson River Park - Noon

> http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-rally-october-1-2011-in-nyc-and-across-the-us.html>> The Coalition Against Nukes National Day of Action flagship rally will> be in NYC Saturday, October 1, 2011. Located at Pier 95 Hudson River> Park, 12th Ave @ West 55th Street, from Noon to 3:30 pm>> The Fukushima Daiichi meltdowns inspired this grassroots action. It> was intensified by the August 23 magnitude 5.8 earthquake that caused> two reactors at Virginias North Anna nuclear plant to shut down.> Twelve reactors up and down the eastern US reported "unusual events"> to the NRC.>

> Then, on August 28, Hurricane Irene demonstrated powerfully that> electrical power and transportation routes can be disrupted over a> very large area-for days and weeks.>> In New York, Entergys aging, leaky, 40-year old Indian Point nuclear> reactors, with uncorrected safety concerns yet under consideration for> additional 20-year relicensing by the Obama Administration, are> located near 2 fault lines, just north of NYC in a very densely-> populated area. Twenty million people live within 50 miles of Indian> Point in NY, New Jersey and Connecticut.>> We stand with the people of Japan who are suffering this ongoing> nuclear disaster. We cannot let that happen here!> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow> Assembly Hall, Riverside Church 490 Riverside Drive [Enter on> Claremont Ave] Manhattan, NY - 1pm> www.endjimcrow.org>> The Issue?>> -2.3 million Americans are imprisoned (twice as much as London and> four times as much as France). While African Americans constitute 13> percent of the U.S. population, they disproportionately fill the> prison system at 38 percent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-rally-october-1-2011-in-nyc-and-across-the-us.htmlhttp://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-rally-october-1-2011-in-nyc-and-across-the-us.htmlhttp://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-rally-october-1-2011-in-nyc-and-across-the-us.htmlhttp://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-rally-october-1-2011-in-nyc-and-across-the-us.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqw

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> -Since the War on Drugs, the number of inmates imprisoned for drug> convictions increased from 41,100 to 1/2 million with the vast> majority being people of color.> -According to a Health and Drug study, Blacks make up 14 percent of> the drug user population, but constitute 54 percent of drug> convictions in the U.S. Criminal Justice System.> -5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of laws> prohibiting voting by people with felony convictions. This has

> resulted in the disenfranchisement of an estimated 13% of black men.> -The "felon" label continues to bar ex-offenders from public housing,> welfare and other basic rights>> The Answer?>> NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow>> Join us in building a movement to end mass incarceration and the> injustices of the new caste system. Find out how you can help at our> first open organizing meeting. All are welcomed!>> START study groups, DEMAND justice, CHALLENGE legislators, HOLD law> enforcement accountable, DOCUMENT the struggle, GET INVOLVED!

>> For more information, visit our website at www.endjimcrow.org or call> 212-501-2112> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



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From: [email protected] on behalf ofLuis Moreno-Caballud


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [september17discuss] Postal Workers National Protest on Tuesday

Date: Monday, September 26, 2011 12:43:00 PM

There is also the postal workers protest tomorrow Tuesday at 5:30. Laborcommittee: are we in contact with them? Another great opportunity to show

solidarity and to prove that this movement belongs to the 99%

http://www.apwu.org/news/webart/2011/11-106-sept27rallies-110925.htm

On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:46 AM, grimwomyn wrote:

OOOHHHH I love this idea!!!!!!! Make the park the center for all tomingle and meet and make each other stronger after the marches!!!!!!!!!LOVE

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Will wrote:

Great suggestion Luis!

On Sep 26, 11:27 am, Luis Moreno-Caballudwrote:> Yes! and physically bring those marches to Zucotti, as it happenedwith the Troy Davis march!>> On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Will wrote:>

>>>>>>> > Hey beautiful people,>> > Last Saturday's march was amazing until it ended in extremepolice> > brutality, and I have a suggestion for how we can follow up thatmarch

> > with something potentially even bigger and in my opinion infinitely> > more significant.>> > This Saturday is a huge day for marches in NYC, with Slutwalk, the> > Rally for a Nuke-Free World, both of which will likely draw about> > 1,000 people each, and an event for the Campaign to End the NewJim> > Crow. (I'll add more info about each of these protests below.)> > Unfortunately each of these events is planned for more or less the> > same time, which I think is indicative of the current level of


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://www.apwu.org/news/webart/2011/11-106-sept27rallies-110925.htmmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://www.apwu.org/news/webart/2011/11-106-sept27rallies-110925.htmmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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> > division within the left, or at least its severe lack of> > coordination.>> > For us to organize a large march for the same time would show ahuge> > lack of solidarity and I strongly urge that we avoid doing this!>

> > I suggest that instead we organize ourselves into three groupsbased> > upon which event we would like to identify with this Saturday(tough> > choice I know!) and mobilize the mass of ourselves to show up inforce> > at these events. I don't suggest that we organize marches fromthe> > occupation to these events, first because we need to save ourenergy> > for them and second because of the risk of drawing more police> > brutality to ourselves and also to the other protesters involved in

> > these events.>> > This is a golden opportunity for us to further project our reach> > beyond the financial district, build our own movement, and showour> > solidarity and establish ties with the rest of the NYC left. We can> > make Occupy Wall Street a place where previously fragmentedsegments> > of the left can find a unifying cause and a safe place to build> > campaigns around their specific issues. I know for sure that after> > the police crackdown on us this past Saturday we gained a lot of> > sympathy from long-time activists in the city who might have been

> > skeptical about us before and recognition that we are a force tobe> > reckoned with. Let's show NYC, the country and the world thatOccupy> > Wall Street is a place where different sections of the left can come> > together and unite around a common purpose.>> > In solidarity,>> > Will>> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> > Slutwalk NYC - Union Square - Noon> >http://slutwalknyc.com/> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqw>> > No matter who you are> > No matter where you work> > No matter how you identify> > No matter how you flirt> > No matter what you wear


http://slutwalknyc.com/http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://slutwalknyc.com/

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> > No matter whom you choose to love> > No matter what you said before:>> > NO ONE has the right to touch you without your consent. SlutWalkNYC> > is part of a worldwide grassroots movement challenging rapeculture,

> > victim-blaming and slut-shaming, and working to end sexual and> > domestic violence.>> > Note on the name: This movement is a response to what thepolice> > commissioner of Toronto said at a gathering, that if women didn't> > dress like sluts, they wouldn't become victims of violence. Thishas> > already spawned huge marches across Canada, the US and theworld> > (Mexico City, Honduras, Mumbai, etc)> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> > Rally for a Nuclear-Free Future - Pier 95 Hudson River Park - Noon> >http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral...>> > The Coalition Against Nukes National Day of Action flagship rallywill> > be in NYC Saturday, October 1, 2011. Located at Pier 95 HudsonRiver> > Park, 12th Ave @ West 55th Street, from Noon to 3:30 pm>> > The Fukushima Daiichi meltdowns inspired this grassroots action.It

> > was intensified by the August 23 magnitude 5.8 earthquake thatcaused> > two reactors at Virginias North Anna nuclear plant to shut down.> > Twelve reactors up and down the eastern US reported "unusualevents"> > to the NRC.>> > Then, on August 28, Hurricane Irene demonstrated powerfully that> > electrical power and transportation routes can be disrupted over a> > very large area-for days and weeks.>> > In New York, Entergys aging, leaky, 40-year old Indian Point

nuclear> > reactors, with uncorrected safety concerns yet under considerationfor> > additional 20-year relicensing by the Obama Administration, are> > located near 2 fault lines, just north of NYC in a very densely-> > populated area. Twenty million people live within 50 miles ofIndian> > Point in NY, New Jersey and Connecticut.>> > We stand with the people of Japan who are suffering this ongoing


http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.

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> > nuclear disaster. We cannot let that happen here!> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> > NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow> > Assembly Hall, Riverside Church 490 Riverside Drive [Enter on> > Claremont Ave] Manhattan, NY - 1pm> >www.endjimcrow.org>

> > The Issue?>> > -2.3 million Americans are imprisoned (twice as much as Londonand> > four times as much as France). While African Americans constitute13> > percent of the U.S. population, they disproportionately fill the> > prison system at 38 percent.> > -Since the War on Drugs, the number of inmates imprisoned fordrug> > convictions increased from 41,100 to 1/2 million with the vast> > majority being people of color.

> > -According to a Health and Drug study, Blacks make up 14 percentof> > the drug user population, but constitute 54 percent of drug> > convictions in the U.S. Criminal Justice System.> > -5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of laws> > prohibiting voting by people with felony convictions. This has> > resulted in the disenfranchisement of an estimated 13% of blackmen.> > -The "felon" label continues to bar ex-offenders from publichousing,> > welfare and other basic rights>

> > The Answer?>> > NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow>> > Join us in building a movement to end mass incarceration and the> > injustices of the new caste system. Find out how you can help atour> > first open organizing meeting. All are welcomed!>> > START study groups, DEMAND justice, CHALLENGE legislators,HOLD law> > enforcement accountable, DOCUMENT the struggle, GET

INVOLVED!>> > For more information, visit our website atwww.endjimcrow.orgorcall> > 212-501-2112> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


http://www.endjimcrow.org/http://www.endjimcrow.org/

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofgrimwomyn


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [september17discuss] Re: Huge Possibilities for Outreach this Weekend!!! (Slutwalk, Rally for aNuke-Free World, The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow)


OOOHHHH I love this idea!!!!!!! Make the park the center for all to mingle and meet

and make each other stronger after the marches!!!!!!!!! LOVE

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Will wrote:Great suggestion Luis!

On Sep 26, 11:27 am, Luis Moreno-Caballud wrote:> Yes! and physically bring those marches to Zucotti, as it happened with the TroyDavis march!>> On Sep 26, 2011, at 11:17 AM, Will wrote:>

>>>>>>> > Hey beautiful people,>> > Last Saturday's march was amazing until it ended in extreme police> > brutality, and I have a suggestion for how we can follow up that march> > with something potentially even bigger and in my opinion infinitely> > more significant.

>> > This Saturday is a huge day for marches in NYC, with Slutwalk, the> > Rally for a Nuke-Free World, both of which will likely draw about> > 1,000 people each, and an event for the Campaign to End the New Jim> > Crow. (I'll add more info about each of these protests below.)> > Unfortunately each of these events is planned for more or less the> > same time, which I think is indicative of the current level of> > division within the left, or at least its severe lack of> > coordination.>> > For us to organize a large march for the same time would show a huge> > lack of solidarity and I strongly urge that we avoid doing this!

>> > I suggest that instead we organize ourselves into three groups based> > upon which event we would like to identify with this Saturday (tough> > choice I know!) and mobilize the mass of ourselves to show up in force> > at these events. I don't suggest that we organize marches from the> > occupation to these events, first because we need to save our energy> > for them and second because of the risk of drawing more police> > brutality to ourselves and also to the other protesters involved in> > these events.>


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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> > This is a golden opportunity for us to further project our reach> > beyond the financial district, build our own movement, and show our> > solidarity and establish ties with the rest of the NYC left. We can> > make Occupy Wall Street a place where previously fragmented segments> > of the left can find a unifying cause and a safe place to build> > campaigns around their specific issues. I know for sure that after> > the police crackdown on us this past Saturday we gained a lot of

> > sympathy from long-time activists in the city who might have been> > skeptical about us before and recognition that we are a force to be> > reckoned with. Let's show NYC, the country and the world that Occupy> > Wall Street is a place where different sections of the left can come> > together and unite around a common purpose.>> > In solidarity,>> > Will>> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> > Slutwalk NYC - Union Square - Noon

> >http://slutwalknyc.com/> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqw>> > No matter who you are> > No matter where you work> > No matter how you identify> > No matter how you flirt> > No matter what you wear> > No matter whom you choose to love> > No matter what you said before:>> > NO ONE has the right to touch you without your consent. SlutWalk NYC

> > is part of a worldwide grassroots movement challenging rape culture,> > victim-blaming and slut-shaming, and working to end sexual and> > domestic violence.>> > Note on the name: This movement is a response to what the police> > commissioner of Toronto said at a gathering, that if women didn't> > dress like sluts, they wouldn't become victims of violence. This has> > already spawned huge marches across Canada, the US and the world> > (Mexico City, Honduras, Mumbai, etc)> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> > Rally for a Nuclear-Free Future - Pier 95 Hudson River Park - Noon> >http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral. ..

>> > The Coalition Against Nukes National Day of Action flagship rally will> > be in NYC Saturday, October 1, 2011. Located at Pier 95 Hudson River> > Park, 12th Ave @ West 55th Street, from Noon to 3:30 pm>> > The Fukushima Daiichi meltdowns inspired this grassroots action. It> > was intensified by the August 23 magnitude 5.8 earthquake that caused> > two reactors at Virginias North Anna nuclear plant to shut down.> > Twelve reactors up and down the eastern US reported "unusual events"> > to the NRC.


http://slutwalknyc.com/http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.http://www.nuclearfreeplanet.org/articles/coalition-against-nukes-ral.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IEhxr4-Yhqwhttp://slutwalknyc.com/

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>> > Then, on August 28, Hurricane Irene demonstrated powerfully that> > electrical power and transportation routes can be disrupted over a> > very large area-for days and weeks.>> > In New York, Entergys aging, leaky, 40-year old Indian Point nuclear> > reactors, with uncorrected safety concerns yet under consideration for

> > additional 20-year relicensing by the Obama Administration, are> > located near 2 fault lines, just north of NYC in a very densely-> > populated area. Twenty million people live within 50 miles of Indian> > Point in NY, New Jersey and Connecticut.>> > We stand with the people of Japan who are suffering this ongoing> > nuclear disaster. We cannot let that happen here!> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> > NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow> > Assembly Hall, Riverside Church 490 Riverside Drive [Enter on> > Claremont Ave] Manhattan, NY - 1pm> >www.endjimcrow.org

>> > The Issue?>> > -2.3 million Americans are imprisoned (twice as much as London and> > four times as much as France). While African Americans constitute 13> > percent of the U.S. population, they disproportionately fill the> > prison system at 38 percent.> > -Since the War on Drugs, the number of inmates imprisoned for drug> > convictions increased from 41,100 to 1/2 million with the vast> > majority being people of color.> > -According to a Health and Drug study, Blacks make up 14 percent of> > the drug user population, but constitute 54 percent of drug

> > convictions in the U.S. Criminal Justice System.> > -5.3 million Americans are denied the right to vote because of laws> > prohibiting voting by people with felony convictions. This has> > resulted in the disenfranchisement of an estimated 13% of black men.> > -The "felon" label continues to bar ex-offenders from public housing,> > welfare and other basic rights>> > The Answer?>> > NJC: The Campaign to End the New Jim Crow>> > Join us in building a movement to end mass incarceration and the

> > injustices of the new caste system. Find out how you can help at our> > first open organizing meeting. All are welcomed!>> > START study groups, DEMAND justice, CHALLENGE legislators, HOLD law> > enforcement accountable, DOCUMENT the struggle, GET INVOLVED!>> > For more information, visit our website atwww.endjimcrow.orgor call> > 212-501-2112> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


http://www.endjimcrow.org/http://www.endjimcrow.org/

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofgail zawacki


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [september17discuss] Re: occupywallst.org: revolution, not a riot, revolution

Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 9:26:33 AM

Heard a report on NPR - MarketPlace - basically repeating WSJ story about plannedeviction but it gave me an insight, since I talked to a cop Sat. eve. I was sure they

were going to evict but he said they were convinced we were going to march again- Sat. eve - and that's why there was such a heavy police presence.

So there you have it - they are happy to confine us to the park and what threatensthem - and the Mayor - is having us move out and really disrupt traffic and businessas usual.

According to NPR, Bloomberg said, if we continue to "villify the banks" well, theyjust won't lend money for mortgages, and the economy will never improve.

See? It's OUR FAULT the economy is in the tank!

Ha!

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 8:46 AM, grimwomyn wrote:Definitely the demands for reform should be loudest right now.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:51 AM, Doug Singsen wrote:

Both are true; they're mutually reinforcing. But the CP in the thirties didn't builda mass membership by calling for revolution at the expense of demandingreforms. The CP engaged in every struggle for reforms it could. So that example

really just helps prove my point, that you don't build a movement for revolutionby avoiding demands for reform.

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Richard S. wrote:Actually, I've gotten a reverse impression from a lot of our history:Reforms are most likely achieved when the ruling powers are scared bytalk about revolution. This certainly is a big part of why the NewDeal reforms went through - because there was concrete fear of arevolutionary communist movement. Much of the workers' organizingthat led to pressure for reforms like the New Deal was led by the

Communist Party. (Our comrade Noam Chomsky has said as much on manyoccasions - and he is not normally a champion for any CP.) In othercountries, too, some of the great leaders who are highly regarded herewould not have been able to achieve what they did had there not beenharder or more militant revolutionaries to balance them out, scaringthe ruling classes. Certainly, this was one of the keys to Gandhi'spolitical success, as Gandhi was easier for the ruling class to takethan the very prevalent communists of the day.

On Sep 25, 8:06 pm, Doug Singsen wrote:


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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> Every revolution in history has begun with demands for reform. You don't> begin a revolution by trying to "prefigure" a future society, you do it by> building democratic, participatory movements for change that address issues> that directly impact peoples' lives. When the state and capital are> unwilling or unable to meet the needs of the mass of the people, revolution> can result.

>> Doug S>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Lauren wrote:> > Honestly it will be neither a revolution nor a riot if our only> > demands are some reforms on the legislative agenda which the

> > legislators will get rid of again in a matter of months.


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofDoug Singsen


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: [september17discuss] Re: occupywallst.org: revolution, not a riot, revolution

Date: Tuesday, September 27, 2011 12:51:31 AM

Both are true; they're mutually reinforcing. But the CP in the thirties didn't build amass membership by calling for revolution at the expense of demanding reforms.

The CP engaged in every struggle for reforms it could. So that example really justhelps prove my point, that you don't build a movement for revolution by avoidingdemands for reform.

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:20 PM, Richard S. wrote:Actually, I've gotten a reverse impression from a lot of our history:Reforms are most likely achieved when the ruling powers are scared bytalk about revolution. This certainly is a big part of why the NewDeal reforms went through - because there was concrete fear of arevolutionary communist movement. Much of the workers' organizingthat led to pressure for reforms like the New Deal was led by theCommunist Party. (Our comrade Noam Chomsky has said as much on many

occasions - and he is not normally a champion for any CP.) In othercountries, too, some of the great leaders who are highly regarded herewould not have been able to achieve what they did had there not beenharder or more militant revolutionaries to balance them out, scaringthe ruling classes. Certainly, this was one of the keys to Gandhi'spolitical success, as Gandhi was easier for the ruling class to takethan the very prevalent communists of the day.

On Sep 25, 8:06 pm, Doug Singsen wrote:

> Every revolution in history has begun with demands for reform. You don't> begin a revolution by trying to "prefigure" a future society, you do it by

> building democratic, participatory movements for change that address issues> that directly impact peoples' lives. When the state and capital are> unwilling or unable to meet the needs of the mass of the people, revolution> can result.>> Doug S>>>>>>

>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Lauren wrote:> > Honestly it will be neither a revolution nor a riot if our only> > demands are some reforms on the legislative agenda which the> > legislators will get rid of again in a matter of months.


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofJackie DiSalvo


Subject: SPAM-LOW: RE: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link the struggle fordemocracy to the struggle for social and economic justice

Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011 6:18:56 AM

Good, general comprehensive

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf OfWinter SirocoSent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 11:26 PMTo: [email protected]: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link the struggle fordemocracy to the struggle for social and economic justice

After a lot of talking and consulting some of us agree with 4 points that everybody mayendorse. Of course, everybody should seriously think about specific strategies to accomplishthese goals.

Ourgoalsare:

Makingthebanks,corporations,andtherichpay,

Creatingarealparticipatorydemocracy,

Endingtheoppressionofallmarginalizedgroups,and

Promotingpeace,solidarity,andeconomicjustice .

Cesar

On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 10:59 PM, wrote:

+1

On 09/24/11, Winter Siroco wrote:


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:52 PM, Snafu < [email protected]> wrote:

Hi all,

I apologize for being off-list and off-the-streets for a few days, but I was lucky enough to become a fatheron September 17!

I personally believe that the obstination of some members of the NYCGA on not having demands has proveddisastrous and resulted in a PR debacle. Invariably, almost all mainstream media accounts of the protestsnote that the demonstrators have confused ideas and are probably motivated by merely ideological motives.

Further, this refusal of having demands has nothing to do with the current movements in the Middle East,Spain and Greece all of which have clear and loud demands. In the case of Arab countries and Middle Easternautocracies the demand cannot be but one (remove the dictator). In Greece and Spain the situation is morecomplex but the movements there have been able to develop specific analyses and requests. In particular theJoint Economics Working Group of Syntagma Square and Puerta del Sol have drafted a document(http://bit.ly/npCWkg) that lists a specific set of demands, such as the request of nationalizing the banks,withdrawing the EU/IMF Memorandum imposed on Greece, make the accounting records transparent, and so forth.

As I have previously suggested, the three simple demands that the NYCGA should have raised in the call toOccupy Wall Street should have been:

1) Reintroduction of the Glass-Steagall Act, alawregulatingthebanksystemthatseparatedinvestmentbanksfromcommercialbanks.Thislaw,originallyapprovedin1933andsigned

intolawbyFDRhasbeenrepealedin1999 .AsWikipediasimplystatesit,"Mosteconomists

believethisrepealdirectlycontributedtotheseverityoftheFinancialcrisisof20072011

byallowingWallStreetinvestmentbankingfirmstogamblewiththeirdepositors'money

thatwasheldincommercialbanksownedorcreatedbytheinvestmentfirms."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlassSteagall_Act

2)Immediate introduction of a Tobin Tax or Robin Hood Tax on allfinancial transactions both at a national and internationallevel. On a national level, it would be sufficient for Congress

to pass it. On an international level, the IMF could subordinateloans to countries in debt to the introduction of a Tobin Taxinstead of requiring massive privatizations as it ordinarilydoes through the notorious structural adjustment programs. InEurope, Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy have officializedtheir support to the introduction of such tax in the EU aboutthree weeks ago. Last June over 1,000 economist submitted aletter by 1,000 economists to the G20 last April that explainswhy the idea of a global Robin Hood Tax has come of age.(http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letter) Robinhoodtax.org, a web site run by a BritishNGO that explains in very simple terms how it works and how muchrevenue it could generate. The NGO also has a Facebook page.

3) Raise taxes on qualified dividends and long-term capitalgains by pairing the long-term capital gains tax rate (whichapplies to financial assets held for more than a year) to theordinary income tax rates. At the moment, thanks to the TaxReconciliation Act signed by Bush into law in 2006 and extendedby the Obama administration to 2012 and beyond, capital gainscannot be taxed more than 20% whereas income tax is taxed up to35%. This means that if your wage falls for example in the$35,000-83,000 bracket your income tax is 25% whereas if youmake 1, 10, or 100 million dollars on the stock market your pay20% only. Even Warren Buffett says that this system is openlyunjust and that the current taxation system is profoundly


mailto:[email protected]://bit.ly/npCWkghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Acthttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Acthttp://bit.ly/npCWkgmailto:[email protected]

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unbalanced and skewed towards financial profit.(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html)

These three proposals are far from revolutionary yet they couldbegin raising specific questions and help bring a variety ofsubjects into the conversation. The notion that a movement isdefined by its demands is ridiculous. A social movement is much more than a set ofdemands yet demands help those who are not on your side understand who you are and where you come from.

Two other critical points that should be discussed in the GA are the public funding of political campaignsand the two-party system. A paramount political objective should be to get corporations to stop fundingpolitical candidates. You cannot have real democracy with the current system of fundraising. A trulydemocratic system would give each citizen a tax bonus of the SAME AMOUNT and enable each one of us to decidehow to allocate such money. A truly democratic society should also not rely on forms of politicalrepresentation based on a majoritarian (first-past-the-post) electoral system. If we are the 99% of thecountry, then we ought to be able to convince the rest of the nation that the 99% counts in fact nothing. Andcorporate funding and the two-party system should be the two main targets of a campaign for real democracy.

To sum up, the question of the redistribution of wealth and democratic control over the financial systemcannot be disconnected from the question of political representation. Organizing a movement that fights"against representative politics" does not mean in my opinion to fight against *any* form of representation,but certainly against the current system of representation. We are over 6 billions on this planet. Thinkingthat each individual should have the right to decide on every issue in every part of the world at all timesmay sound fascinating but it is simply unrealistic and unrealizable. Whether we like it or not, we constantlydelegate to others the understanding of issues and execution of tasks we simply do not have the time tounderstand and care about. (The worldwide professionalization of national armies and the advancedspecialization of knowledge in scientific and academic research are just two notable cases in point).

Thus the question is not how to abolish authority and representation per se but how to produce forms ofrepresentation that are truly representative, renewable and non-ossified. The NYCGA could be such a body,once we live behind the rather childish notion that demands define us and by defining us trap us in someblind alley from which we'll be unable to move forward.

Cheers,Snafu

--

Diane Sare

cell: 201-220-7731


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://tel:201/http://tel:201/http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofgail zawacki


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link the struggle fordemocracy to the struggle for social and economic justice

Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:40:41 PM

Excellent. I thing it should be oppression "of" not "on".

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Winter Siroco wrote:I think I like the previous suggestion better:End control of the government by global banks, corporations, and billionaires and I would keep the others in

the shorten version because the extensions are redundant, it is implicit, except for the vulnerable groups so:

End control of the government by global banks, corporations and billionaires,

Creating a real participatory democracy

Ending the oppression on all marginalized and vulnerable groups.

Promoting peace, solidarity, and opportunity for all.

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 11:54 AM, grimwomyn wrote:How about:

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Winter Siroco wrote:

I agree, perhaps it could be

OUR GOALS ARE:

To end the Wall Street dictatorship and the aristocratic rights to tax exemption,

Creating a real participatory democracy,

Ending the oppression of all marginalized groups, and

Promoting peace, solidarity, and economic justice.

Cesar

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Jon Good wrote:

"Making the banks, corporations and the rich pay" is a bit vengeful and I thinktoo open-ended. Besides, we don't want them just to pay, we want to changethe system that allows them to amass such huge wealth and influence in thefirst place.

The way banks work is that ordinary people put their savings into banks*, andthe banks take our money and sling it around and invest it in all kinds ofcorporate and capital projects to help big corporations squeeze out the littleguys and leverage their money to invade further facets of our lives (schools,hospitals, prisons, etc).



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I think the first goal should read something closer to "end the control ofgovernment and the economy by banks, corporations, and the rich." or "endthe control of our lives by the crony system between big business and biggovernment." I'm aware that the phrase "big government" is a loaded termthat conjures up visions of black helicopters and wasteful spending among theTea Party and Republicans, but the thing is that there are black helicoptersand wasteful spending, it's just that the welfare queens and are actually

corporations and not poor single women. So I think that's not too bad of away to bridge the gap.

*It's really sick when you think of it as a co-operative where everybody poolsall our wealth in one place, and then the bankers use it to amass huge wealthfor themselves and make us powerless There's all kinds of parts of the financeworld where the super rich form what are basically co-ops for their exclusivebenefit (a good example is the Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtcc).

In solidarity,

Jon

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Jackie DiSalvo wrote:

No, no the original is better

Makingthebanks,corporations,andtherichpay

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On BehalfOfWinter SirocoSent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 1:48 AMTo: [email protected]: Re: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link thestruggle for democracy to the struggle for social and economic justice

Yes, the first needs reworking.

What about:

Ourgoalsare:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtccmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtcc

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To end the Wall Street bending of the law, and the aristocratic

right to tax exemption,



Promotingpeace,solidarity,andeconomicjustice.

Cesar

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:13 AM, gail zawacki wrote:

Makingthebanks,corporations,andtherichpay,soundssostupidandgreedy!DON'Tletthathappen.

Corporationsdonothavechildren,theydonothavesouls,theexistforshort-

termprofitandtheycontrolourgovernment.Peopledon'thaveavoice-itis

drownedoutbycorporatemessaging,lobbyistsontheirbehalf,campaign

contributions.

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:05 AM, wrote:

I can get behind this. Can we all agree on a message soon? Our soundbite world is unable to comprehend complexity. Many

keep calling us stupid because we think too much. lol


After a lot of talking and consulting some of us agree with 4 points that everybody may endorse. Of course, everybody should seriously think aboutspecific strategies to accomplish these goals.


+1


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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Yes, simple, broad and not demands but goals.

Cesar

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Willie Osterweil wrote:

I think if we use demands at all we need to be focused on simple, clear demands that will enlarge our ranks.

The house/senate wont pass anything even remotely looking like a change in wealth distribution, the Obama administration bends

over backwards to appease the bi-partisan banks, the Supreme Court declares that proof of innocence is insufficient cause for a

stay of execution, and the media will always distort and misrepresent, either through malice or incompetence.

Thus, any sort of wonky policy demand that speaks only to the already politically active is unproductive and serves to marginalize

and entrench the protest into a pre-exiting middle-class protest community. The government will give us nothing, we need to build

the numbers to take...

The only positive function of demands is solidarity and recruitment: the simpler, broader and more universal, the better.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Winter Siroco < [email protected]> wrote:

...true, true...so, what would be your positive contribution or rearangement of priorities?

be constructive.

Cesar


And nothing gets the blood of the people stirring like a call to reinstate Glass-Steagall. Yup, I can see it now, the media suddenly

exploding with coverage, the ramparts filling with the oppressed and underrepresented: "They've called for the reinstatement of

Glass-Steagall! Quickly, comrades, to arms! To arms! For Glass Steagall!"

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:58 AM, diane sare wrote:

Glass-Steagall would bust up the "too big to fail" banks, let the speculators rot, as they should, and protect the small savings and

loan banks, which means people's savings, mortgages, there would be hope for pension funds, etc. In other words, Glass-Steagall

would bankrupt Wall Street -- it's not the whole recovery, but it IS the first step to protecting the PEOPLE, and making it possible to

think long-term about radical things we used to do, like water management, rail building etc .


Hi all,

I apologize for being off-list and off-the-streets for a few days, but I was lucky enough to

become a father on September 17!

I personally believe that the obstination of some members of the NYCGA on not having demands hasproved disastrous and resulted in a PR debacle. Invariably, almost all mainstream media accountsof the protests note that the demonstrators have confused ideas and are probably motivated bymerely ideological motives.

Further, this refusal of having demands has nothing to do with the current movements in the MiddleEast, Spain and Greece all of which have clear and loud demands. In the case of Arab countries andMiddle Eastern autocracies the demand cannot be but one (remove the dictator). In Greece and Spainthe situation is more complex but the movements there have been able to develop specific analysesand requests. In particular the Joint Economics Working Group of Syntagma Square and Puerta delSol have drafted a document (http://bit.ly/npCWkg) that lists a specific set of demands, such asthe request of nationalizing the banks, withdrawing the EU/IMF Memorandum imposed on Greece, makethe accounting records transparent, and so forth.

As I have previously suggested, the three simple demands that the NYCGA should have raised in thecall to Occupy Wall Street should have been:


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://bit.ly/npCWkghttp://bit.ly/npCWkgmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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1) Reintroduction of the Glass-Steagall Act, alawregulatingthebanksystemthat

separatedinvestmentbanksfromcommercialbanks.Thislaw,originallyapproved

in1933andsignedintolawbyFDRhasbeenrepealedin1999 .AsWikipedia

simplystatesit,"Mosteconomistsbelievethisrepealdirectlycontributedtothe

severityoftheFinancialcrisisof20072011byallowingWallStreetinvestment

bankingfirmstogamblewiththeirdepositors'moneythatwasheldincommercial

banksownedorcreatedbytheinvestmentfirms."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlassSteagall_Act

2)Immediate introduction of a Tobin Tax or Robin Hood Taxon all financial transactions both at a national andinternational level. On a national level, it would besufficient for Congress to pass it. On an internationallevel, the IMF could subordinate loans to countries indebt to the introduction of a Tobin Tax instead ofrequiring massive privatizations as it ordinarily doesthrough the notorious structural adjustment programs. InEurope, Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy have

officialized their support to the introduction of such taxin the EU about three weeks ago. Last June over 1,000economist submitted a letter by 1,000 economists to theG20 last April that explains why the idea of a globalRobin Hood Tax has come of age.(http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letter) Robinhoodtax.org, a web site run bya British NGO that explains in very simple terms how itworks and how much revenue it could generate. The NGO alsohas a Facebook page.

3) Raise taxes on qualified dividends and long-termcapital gains by pairing the long-term capital gains taxrate (which applies to financial assets held for more than

a year) to the ordinary income tax rates. At the moment,thanks to the Tax Reconciliation Act signed by Bush intolaw in 2006 and extended by the Obama administration to2012 and beyond, capital gains cannot be taxed more than20% whereas income tax is taxed up to 35%. This means thatif your wage falls for example in the $35,000-83,000bracket your income tax is 25% whereas if you make 1, 10,or 100 million dollars on the stock market your pay 20%only. Even Warren Buffett says that this system is openlyunjust and that the current taxation system is profoundlyunbalanced and skewed towards financial profit.(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html)

These three proposals are far from revolutionary yet theycould begin raising specific questions and help bring avariety of subjects into the conversation. The notion thata movement is defined by its demands is ridiculous. A socialmovement is much more than a set of demands yet demands help those who are not on your sideunderstand who you are and where you come from.

Two other critical points that should be discussed in the GA are the public funding of politicalcampaigns and the two-party system. A paramount political objective should be to get corporationsto stop funding political candidates. You cannot have real democracy with the current system offundraising. A truly democratic system would give each citizen a tax bonus of the SAME AMOUNT andenable each one of us to decide how to allocate such money. A truly democratic society should alsonot rely on forms of political representation based on a majoritarian (first-past-the-post)electoral system. If we are the 99% of the country, then we ought to be able to convince the restof the nation that the 99% counts in fact nothing. And corporate funding and the two-party systemshould be the two main targets of a campaign for real democracy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Acthttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act

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To sum up, the question of the redistribution of wealth and democratic control over the financialsystem cannot be disconnected from the question of political representation. Organizing a movementthat fights "against representative politics" does not mean in my opinion to fight against *any*form of representation, but certainly against the current system of representation. We are over 6billions on this planet. Thinking that each individual should have the right to decide on everyissue in every part of the world at all times may sound fascinating but it is simply unrealisticand unrealizable. Whether we like it or not, we constantly delegate to others the understanding ofissues and execution of tasks we simply do not have the time to understand and care about. (Theworldwide professionalization of national armies and the advanced specialization of knowledge inscientific and academic research are just two notable cases in point).

Thus the question is not how to abolish authority and representation per se but how to produceforms of representation that are truly representative, renewable and non-ossified. The NYCGA could

be such a body, once we live behind the rather childish notion that demands define us and bydefining us trap us in some blind alley from which we'll be unable to move forward.

Cheers,Snafu

--

Diane Sare

cell: 201-220-7731


http://tel:201/http://tel:201/

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofJon Good


Subject: SPAM-LOW: Re: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link the struggle fordemocracy to the struggle for social and economic justice

Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011 9:58:25 AM

"Making the banks, corporations and the rich pay" is a bit vengeful and I think too

open-ended. Besides, we don't want them just to pay, we want to change thesystem that allows them to amass such huge wealth and influence in the first place.

The way banks work is that ordinary people put their savings into banks*, and thebanks take our money and sling it around and invest it in all kinds of corporate andcapital projects to help big corporations squeeze out the little guys and leveragetheir money to invade further facets of our lives (schools, hospitals, prisons, etc).

I think the first goal should read something closer to "end the control of governmentand the economy by banks, corporations, and the rich." or "end the control of ourlives by the crony system between big business and big government." I'm awarethat the phrase "big government" is a loaded term that conjures up visions of black

helicopters and wasteful spending among the Tea Party and Republicans, but thething is that there are black helicopters and wasteful spending, it's just that thewelfare queens and are actually corporations and not poor single women. So I thinkthat's not too bad of a way to bridge the gap.

*It's really sick when you think of it as a co-operative where everybody pools all ourwealth in one place, and then the bankers use it to amass huge wealth forthemselves and make us powerless There's all kinds of parts of the finance worldwhere the super rich form what are basically co-ops for their exclusive benefit (agood example is the Depository Trust and Clearing Corporation:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtcc).

In solidarity,

Jon

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 6:26 AM, Jackie DiSalvo wrote:

No, no the original is better

Makingthebanks,corporations,andtherichpay

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf OfWinter SirocoSent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 1:48 AMTo: [email protected]: Re: Re: Re: [september17discuss] Five demands from the NYCGA: how to link the strugglefor democracy to the struggle for social and economic justice


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtccmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dtccmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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Yes, the first needs reworking.

What about:

Ourgoalsare:

To end the Wall Street bending of the law, and the aristocratic right to

tax exemption,



Promotingpeace,solidarity,andeconomicjustice .

Cesar

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:13 AM, gail zawacki wrote:

Makingthebanks,corporations,andtherichpay,soundssostupidandgreedy!DON'Tletthathappen.

Corporationsdonothavechildren,theydonothavesouls,theexistforshort-term

profitandtheycontrolourgovernment.Peopledon'thaveavoice-itisdrownedout

bycorporatemessaging,lobbyistsontheirbehalf,campaigncontributions .

On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:05 AM, wrote:

I can get behind this. Can we all agree on a message soon? Our soundbite world is unable to comprehend complexity. Many keep calling

us stupid because we think too much. lol



mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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After a lot of talking and consulting some of us agree with 4 points that everybody may endorse. Of course, everybody should seriously think about specificstrategies to accomplish these goals.


+1


Yes, simple, broad and not demands but goals.

Cesar


I think if we use demands at all we need to be focused on simple, clear demands that will enlarge our ranks.

The house/senate wont pass anything even remotely looking like a change in wealth distribution, the Obama administration bends over

backwards to appease the bi-partisan banks, the Supreme Court declares that proof of innocence is insufficient cause for a stay of execution,

and the media will always distort and misrepresent, either through malice or incompetence.

Thus, any sort of wonky policy demand that speaks only to the already politically active is unproductive and serves to marginalize and entrench

the protest into a pre-exiting middle-class protest community. The government will give us nothing, we need to build the numbers to take...

The only positive function of demands is solidarity and recruitment: the simpler, broader and more universal, the better.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Winter Siroco < [email protected]> wrote:

...true, true...so, what would be your positive contribution or rearangement of priorities?

be constructive.

Cesar


And nothing gets the blood of the people stirring like a call to reinstate Glass-Steagall. Yup, I can see it now, the media suddenly exploding

with coverage, the ramparts filling with the oppressed and underrepresented: "They've called for the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall! Quickly,

comrades, to arms! To arms! For Glass Steagall!"

On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 8:58 AM, diane sare wrote:

Glass-Steagall would bust up the "too big to fail" banks, let the speculators rot, as they should, and protect the small savings and loan banks,

which means people's savings, mortgages, there would be hope for pension funds, etc. In other words, Glass-Steagall would bankrupt Wall

Street -- it's not the whole recovery, but it IS the first step to protecting the PEOPLE, and making it possible to think long-term about radical

things we used to do, like water management, rail building etc .


Hi all,

I apologize for being off-list and off-the-streets for a few days, but I was lucky enough to become afather on September 17!



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I personally believe that the obstination of some members of the NYCGA on not having demands has proveddisastrous and resulted in a PR debacle. Invariably, almost all mainstream media accounts of the protestsnote that the demonstrators have confused ideas and are probably motivated by merely ideological motives.

Further, this refusal of having demands has nothing to do with the current movements in the Middle East,Spain and Greece all of which have clear and loud demands. In the case of Arab countries and MiddleEastern autocracies the demand cannot be but one (remove the dictator). In Greece and Spain the situationis more complex but the movements there have been able to develop specific analyses and requests. Inparticular the Joint Economics Working Group of Syntagma Square and Puerta del Sol have drafted a document(http://bit.ly/npCWkg) that lists a specific set of demands, such as the request of nationalizing thebanks, withdrawing the EU/IMF Memorandum imposed on Greece, make the accounting records transparent, andso forth.

As I have previously suggested, the three simple demands that the NYCGA should have raised in the call toOccupy Wall Street should have been:

1) Reintroduction of the Glass-Steagall Act, alawregulatingthebanksystemthatseparated

investmentbanksfromcommercialbanks. Thislaw,originallyapprovedin1933and

signedintolawbyFDRhasbeenrepealedin1999 .AsWikipediasimplystatesit,"Most

economistsbelievethisrepealdirectlycontributedtotheseverityoftheFinancialcrisisof

20072011byallowingWallStreetinvestmentbankingfirmstogamblewiththeir

depositors'moneythatwasheldincommercialbanksownedorcreatedbythe

investmentfirms."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlassSteagall_Act

2)Immediate introduction of a Tobin Tax or Robin Hood Tax onall financial transactions both at a national and internationallevel. On a national level, it would be sufficient for Congressto pass it. On an international level, the IMF couldsubordinate loans to countries in debt to the introduction of aTobin Tax instead of requiring massive privatizations as itordinarily does through the notorious structural adjustmentprograms. In Europe, Angela Merkel and Nicholas Sarkozy haveofficialized their support to the introduction of such tax inthe EU about three weeks ago. Last June over 1,000 economistsubmitted a letter by 1,000 economists to the G20 last Aprilthat explains why the idea of a global Robin Hood Tax hascome of age.(http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letter) Robinhoodtax.org, a web site run by aBritish NGO that explains in very simple terms how it works andhow much revenue it could generate. The NGO also has aFacebook page.

3) Raise taxes on qualified dividends and long-term capitalgains by pairing the long-term capital gains tax rate (whichapplies to financial assets held for more than a year) to theordinary income tax rates. At the moment, thanks to the TaxReconciliation Act signed by Bush into law in 2006 and extendedby the Obama administration to 2012 and beyond, capital gainscannot be taxed more than 20% whereas income tax is taxed upto 35%. This means that if your wage falls for example in the$35,000-83,000 bracket your income tax is 25% whereas if you

make 1, 10, or 100 million dollars on the stock market yourpay 20% only. Even Warren Buffett says that this system isopenly unjust and that the current taxation system isprofoundly unbalanced and skewed towards financial profit.(http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.html)

These three proposals are far from revolutionary yet they couldbegin raising specific questions and help bring a variety ofsubjects into the conversation. The notion that a movement isdefined by its demands is ridiculous. A social movement is much more than a setof demands yet demands help those who are not on your side understand who you are and where you come from.


http://bit.ly/npCWkghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Acthttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/opinion/stop-coddling-the-super-rich.htmlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/apr/13/robin-hood-tax-economists-letterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Acthttp://bit.ly/npCWkg

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Two other critical points that should be discussed in the GA are the public funding of political campaignsand the two-party system. A paramount political objective should be to get corporations to stop fundingpolitical candidates. You cannot have real democracy with the current system of fundraising. A trulydemocratic system would give each citizen a tax bonus of the SAME AMOUNT and enable each one of us todecide how to allocate such money. A truly democratic society should also not rely on forms of politicalrepresentation based on a majoritarian (first-past-the-post) electoral system. If we are the 99% of thecountry, then we ought to be able to convince the rest of the nation that the 99% counts in fact nothing.And corporate funding and the two-party system should be the two main targets of a campaign for realdemocracy.

To sum up, the question of the redistribution of wealth and democratic control over the financial systemcannot be disconnected from the question of political representation. Organizing a movement that fights

"against representative politics" does not mean in my opinion to fight against *any* form ofrepresentation, but certainly against the current system of representation. We are over 6 billions on thisplanet. Thinking that each individual should have the right to decide on every issue in every part of theworld at all times may sound fascinating but it is simply unrealistic and unrealizable. Whether we like itor not, we constantly delegate to others the understanding of issues and execution of tasks we simply donot have the time to understand and care about. (The worldwide professionalization of national armies andthe advanced specialization of knowledge in scientific and academic research are just two notable cases inpoint).

Thus the question is not how to abolish authority and representation per se but how to produce forms ofrepresentation that are truly representative, renewable and non-ossified. The NYCGA could be such a body,once we live behind the rather childish notion that demands define us and by defining us trap us in someblind alley from which we'll be unable to move forward.

Cheers,Snafu

--

Diane Sare

cell: 201-220-7731


http://tel:201/http://tel:201/

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofNicolasMoselleAllen


Subject: SPAM-MED: [september17discuss] confirmed, Richard Wolff at Occupy Wall Street, date and time TBD

Date: Sunday, September 25, 2011 2:31:25 PM

hey gang!

The good people of the Brecht Forum have informed me that Marxisteconomist Richard Wolff has confirmed that he will come to speak atLiberty Plaza, although at the moment he can't confirm date or time.

With this good news and a little bit of time for planning, can westart to organize for a Free School weekend teach-in? I'm ashamed tosay that I haven't been at the Park as much I would like so I don'tknow how the following weeks will be scheduled. In a previous messagewe had discussed using the 6pm Open Forum has a platform for lectures.

Is someone else interested in helping me organize a Free School? Iknow many people, like Jackie, have more organizing experience than Ido, not to mention more connections with academics and intellectuals.

Ok! Thanks!

Nico


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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From: [email protected] on behalf ofConor Toms Reed


Subject: SPAM-MED: [september17discuss] CRASH Press conf. for NYPD Commish Ray Kelly: tmw Tues 9/27


Hey, folks. It looks like the NYPD's trying to do a quick PR clean-up. Should webring some folks from Liberty Plaza to chant "SHAME" for the NYPD's recent

brutalities on Thursday night for the Troy Davis and Saturday for the Occupy WallStreet march? The celebratory language of the press release is strange, given thatone of the speakers, Jumaane Williams, was illegally arrested at the West Indian Dayparade (walking while Black).

what do y'all think?-Conor

---------- Forwarded message ----------From: todd eaton Date: Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:08 AMSubject: Press conf. for NYPD Commish Ray Kelly: tmw Tues 9/27


Press conference to applaud NYC's & NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly's announcedintention that his forces may begin to comply with rule of law...following City for adecade and counting having centered its public safety efforts around making manytens of thousands of plainly illegal race arrests, in a coordinated campaign that wasapparently specifically designed to compel Black and Latino youth to move away.

Call for the passage of New York bill A.7620 (Jeffries)/S.5187 (Grisanti) and CityCouncil Resolution 0986-2011 (Mark-Viverito)Tuesday, September 27 at 1 :30pm at 1 Police Plaza

TRANSIT: #4,5,6 train to Brooklyn Bridge/City Hall, J train to Chambers street; R,but never N, to City Hall (Broadway & Warren); A, C to Chambers (at Church St.);#1, 2, 3 to Chambers (at W. Broadway); E to WTC; Police Plz is just east of the 1Centre St. Municipal Bldg., equivalent of Chambers St.; MAP:

["I'll believe it when it's in my hot little hand." - Anon.]= = =

Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 09:44:17 -0400From: "Jeremy Saunders, VOCAL-NY"

Subject: [Rttc-nyc] Big Victory for NYPD Accountability!

In response to mounting pressure, NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly told police officerslast week to follow the law and stop making costly and racially biased marijuanaarrests, now the number one arrest in New York City. This could translate into tensof thousands of fewer arrests among Black and Latino youth each year.

VOCAL-NY led the grassroots effort to end these arrests in collaboration with ourallies at the Drug Policy Alliance (DPA) and the Institute for Juvenile Justice Reformand Alternatives (IJJRA).


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://ow.ly/5or1Nmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]://ow.ly/5or1Nmailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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Although marijuana use is higher among whites, 86% of those arrested formarijuana possession last year were Black and Latino youth. The NYPD's aggressiveuse of stop-and-frisks in communities of color, along with unconstitutional searchesthat often follow, have largely driven these arrests. Being arrested can mean morethan a night in jail too. It can make it difficult for people to find housing, get a job,take care of their family and apply for tuition assistance.

Please join us this Tuesday, September 27 at 1:30pmto celebrate this important victory and call for effective implementation.

What: Press conference applauding NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly's policy shift toenforce existing marijuana possession laws and to call for the passage of New Yorkbill A.7620 (Jeffries)/S.5187 (Grisanti) and City Council Resolution 0986-2011 (Mark-

Viverito)

When: Tuesday, September 27 at 1:30pm

Where: 1 Police Plaza; 4,5,6 train to Brooklyn Bridge/City Hall, J train to Chambers

street; [or R, but never N, to City Hall (Broadway & Warren); A, C to Chambers (atChurch St.); #1, 2, 3 to Chambers (at W. Broadway); E to WTC; Police Plz is justeast of the 1 Centre St. Municipal Bldg., equivalent of Chambers St.; map: -t.]

Who: Drug Policy Al l iance, IJJRA, VOCAL-NY, New York Assembly MemberHakeem Jeffries, NYC Council Members Melissa Mark -Viverito andJumaane D. Wil l iams, advocates, and others

BACKGROUND:On Monday, September 19th, responding to mounting public pressure fromadvocates and elected officials, NYPD police commissioner Ray Kelly issued an

operations order that clarified existing marijuana possession laws, instructing officersnot to arrest people for marijuana in public view when complying with an officer'sdemand to "empty their pockets". This change could lead to the reduction of tens ofthousands of arrests in New York City.

Nearly all of these arrests have been made in defiance of the law. Marijuana hasbeen decriminalized since 1977, making possession of 25 grams or less of marijuanaa violation, punishable by a $100 fine, not arrest and jail. However, possessing orburning marijuana in public view is a criminal offense punishable by arrest and jail.

Since 1996, the NYPD has made over 535,000 arrests for possession of smallamounts of marijuana. In 2010 alone, 50,383 people were arrested for simple

marijuana possession, comprising nearly 15% of all arrests and making it thenumber one arrest in the city. Most of these arrests were not for smoking in public,but were the result of complying with an officer's demand to disclose contraband orfrom a police search and being improperly charged for "marijuana in public view"instead of the non-criminal violation offense.

Join the VOCAL-NY, Drug Policy Alliance and IJJRA, together with elected officials, toapplaud the Police Commissioner for his policy change, and to urge cooperation toensure that officers follow this directive. This operations order can be madepermanent, and apply to all of New York state, by passing New York bill A.7620


http://ow.ly/5or1Nhttp://ow.ly/5or1N

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