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From: [email protected] on behalf ofshaista husain

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1

Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:46:31 AM

The unprecedented support and endorsements by labor organizations joining theoccupation is already an enormous victory--big props to labor outreach--i think we

would pigeonhole ourselves with one demand--it is counter to our decentralized andautonomous structure--although consensus means we are unified one shouldn'tvulgarize it to mean we are homogenous--we are heterogenous--multi-form in ourdiversity and strategically best served by multiple fronts of resistance and alliances--we are building bridges and as a coalition our ability to galvanize further action.

Perhaps, instead of arguing over demands we can begin to define ourselves bysupporting and endorsing other protests, drafting and passing these in the GA. Inthis way it is not some abstract demands, but more concrete alliances, voicing OURsupport of other protest movements---for example, --like thehttp://prisonerhungerstrikesolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/prisoner-hunger-strike-grows-to-nearly-12000/ -- THere is a hunger strike in our prisons, the media is

not giving enough attention to. We could show solidarity with prisoners who aresilenced and locked away and support their demands. for example, we could alsooppose Tar Sands and endorse those working to save our environment. WHile wehash out whether we will have demands/values/program etc.. perhaps we can beginto add OUR support and solidarity, not only with organized labor and civil groupswho are giving us huge support, but also to those who need our support. Buildbridges. (obviously this is happening whether we formalize it or not, but it would begreat to formalize it and articulate it with GA approval.)

In solidarity,Shaista

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 5:58 PM, gail zawacki wrote:But we aren't protesting one thing, like the Iraq war. If you look at photos of thesigns people carry, their are multiple issues. I have argued that we could makethe one demand - get corporate money out of politics - and many of the otherissues would, and should, be resolved in a real democracy according to what themajority of the people want v. what will profit the plutocracy greatest.

However there is quite a bit of resistance to boiling it all down to one demand onthe part of some of the most active and passionate occupiers, and to allow it to bean evolving and organic process - and so I tend to think it's up to the press, like

Matt T., to explain THAT position, rather than pressure OWS to capitulate.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Cesar wrote:I do not expect nothing but populist concesions. If they start to work for thepeople tomorrow, great, it will advance our goals, but our strategy is to growour power.Cesar

Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.teapartycheer.com

mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://prisonerhungerstrikesolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/prisoner-hunger-strike-grows-to-nearly-12000/http://prisonerhungerstrikesolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/prisoner-hunger-strike-grows-to-nearly-12000/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]://prisonerhungerstrikesolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/prisoner-hunger-strike-grows-to-nearly-12000/http://prisonerhungerstrikesolidarity.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/prisoner-hunger-strike-grows-to-nearly-12000/mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

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Sent from phone

On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Matthew Taibbi wrote:

Let me ask you a question. If this were the Iraq war you were protestinginstead of Wall Street corruption, would it be "naive" to demand awithdrawal from Iraq?

Are you saying it's "naive" because it's unreasonable to expect results? Idon't understand the use of that word in this context.

--- On Tue, 10/4/ 11, Cesar wrote:

From: Cesar

Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1To: "Matthew Taibbi" Cc: "Yves Smith" , "Dylan Ratigan", "Michael Hudson", "WilliamBlack", "David DeGraw","[email protected]", "[email protected]", "[email protected]", "[email protected]"

, "Nomi" ,"Michael" , "Mike Papantonio", "MichaelKrieger", "George Washington", "Tyler Durden", "[email protected]", "Karl" , "Barry", "Kevin Zeese", "max" , "Matt", "Simon" ,"Zach" , "David CayJohnston", "Bill Laggner"

, "Paul", "Noam Chomsky", "BillMoyers" ,"[email protected]" ,"[email protected]", "[email protected]"Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 3:05 PM


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I am for elaborating collective discourse, but perhaps better in termsof general GOALS rather than demands. Demads are naive at thispoint, to put it shoftly.This is not incompatible with strategic actions that may achieve shortterm victories. Due to our location I think we should provide ourview of the economic facts, and prioritize our actions toward shortterm and long term solutions.

Regarding the elaboration of collective discourse, perhaps we shouldtry some form of open source or similar wiki-process that wouldfacilitate multiple contributions from diverse viewpoints.Cesar

Sent from phone

On Oct 4, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Matthew Taibbi wrote:

I disagree with the notion that there shouldn't bedemands. I think there should be a few simple ones. It'snot a MSM conspiracy when the press wonders what themovement wants or who is leading it. I think there are alot of people in the press and even on Wall Street whoare ready to support the movement wholeheartedly, if itcould articulate some specifics.

If OWS could identify a few basic problems -- over-concentration of capital, regulatory capture, overweening

influence of money on politics, excess financialization ofthe economy, tax unfairness, etc -- and propose somefirst-step solutions to all of those things (break up thebanks, force bailout recipients to give up lobbying, endthe carried interest and capital gains exemptions asMichael points out, etc), you'd have more allies, you'd beeducating the public about a subject that it has a toughtime getting real information about through normalmedia, and it would prevent the other side of the debatefrom being able to define the movement in their own(inevitably unflattering) terms.

The only thing preventing millions of people from goingout onto the streets on their own is that they don'tunderstand how Wall Street works or what it does. Thatto me is why the movement needs to be specific. It has aresponsibility to explain these problems to the generalpublic and to show that solutions do exist and thatthey're attainable. People I think need more than just theknowledge that they can protest -- they need to believethat they can fix things and that someone out there hasthe answers. And a lot of the people on this email list do


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have the answers and could provide that leadership thatis so desperately needed.

--- On Tue, 10/ 4/ 11, Dylan Ratigan wrote:

From: Dylan Ratigan Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet EconomicStatement Draft 1To: "Yves Smith" Cc: "Michael Hudson", "Black, William", "David DeGraw",

"[email protected]","[email protected]", "Winter Siroco","[email protected]","[email protected]", "Nomi", "Michael", "Mike Papantonio", "Michael Krieger"

, "George Washington","Tyler Durden" ,"[email protected]", "Karl", "Barry", "Kevin Zeese", "max", "Matt", "Simon", "Zach", "David Cay Johnston"

, "Bill Laggner", "Paul", "Noam Chomsky", "Moyers, Bill","[email protected]","[email protected]","[email protected]"


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Date: Tuesday, October 4, 2011, 9:17 AM

I agree with Yves entirely. The focus on simpleshared principle and intent to align with all whoagree with that principle is a unique strength.Learning, teaching and growing.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 4:11 AM, Yves Smith wrote:

I disagree strongly with the idea of anydemands now. The number participating are fartoo small for the effort to have any bargainingleverage or to be perceived to representanyone.

What is hugely disconcerting to the MSM andthe officialdom is the lack of demands and thelack of easy to identify leadership These need to

be understood as strengths, not weaknesses.The labor union movement was over timecompletely discredited because the leadershipwas quickly corrupted and sold out themembership.

The "We are the 99%" is a VERY powerfulmessage. It basically says "We don't need tonegotiate. This is our country and we want itback from the top 1% which has been selling usout." The 1% know damned well what the99% want. If you forced any 10 in the top 1%

of them to make a list of 10 things they thoughtthe other 99% wanted, I guarantee you'd haveno more than 16 real issues (at most) amongthe 100 answers you'd get in total. And Istrongly suspect the 99% would agree or atmost restate them.

They are MUCH better off making a generalstatement along the "We Are 99%" that holdstheir ground, and makes clear that their firstpriority is establishing their presence, building acritical mass and representation around the US.

There should be a clever way of throwing thedemand for demands back on the media: "It hastaken years to create this mess, the public hasbeen sold on the idea that it is powerless. Ourfirst aim is to convey that the bottom 99%doesn't merely have the right to a seat at thetable, it should not have to negotiate with thetop 1% because the elites depend on ouracquiescence and support for their verysurvival."


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There has to be a nice way to say that, but Iwould brush off the demand and make it clearthat organization/membership building and (Ihate to use that tired 60s term, but it fits)consciousness raising are the first priorities. Themore the numbers swell, the more power this

effort has. Issuing demands is not on thecritical path right now and has the potential todeter people from joining. The broader publicunderstands damned well what the aims areeven if the elites and their media lapdogs areplaying stupid.

On Oct 3, 2011, at 3:54 PM, Michael Hudsonwrote:

> I suggest putting a specific POLICY DEMAND.

> How about "Bankruptcy legislation to freepeople without jobs from> student loan debt."> Or more accurately: "Tax capital gains ashigh as wages."> "Remove the tax deductibility of debt."> "A Public Option for Credit Cards -- lower therates and penalties."> Michael Hudson>>> On 10/3/11 3:37 PM, "Black, William"

wrote:>>> I would recommend adding/substitutingsomething along these lines. If we're>> going to raise the subject of "fraud" weneed to give some of the supporting>> facts.>>>> The systemically dangerous institutions(SDIs) are inaccurately called "too>> big to fail" banks. The administration callsthem "systemically important,"

>> and acts as if they deserve a gold star. Theugly truth, however, is what>> Wall Street and each administration screamswhen the SDIs get in trouble.>> They warn us that if a single SDI fails it willcause a global financial>> crisis. There are roughly 20 U.S. SDIs andabout the same number abroad.>> That means that we roll the dice 40 times aday to see which SDI will blow up



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>> next and drag the world economy into crisis.Economists agree that the SDIs

>> are so large that they are grotesquelyinefficient. In "good times,">> therefore, they harm our economy. It isinsane not to shrink the SDIs to the>> point that they no longer hold the global

economy hostage. The ability -- and>> willingness -- of the CEOs that control SDIsto hold our economy hostage makes>> the SDIs too big to regulate and prosecute.It also allows them to extort,

>> dominate, and degrade our democracies.The SDIs pose a clear and present

>> danger to the U.S. and the world.>>>> It takes a global effort against the SDIsbecause they constantly put nations>> in competition with each other in order to

generate a "race to the bottom.">> We are always being warned that if the U.S.adopts even minimal regulation of>> its SDIs they will flee to the City of Londonor be unable to compete with>> Germany's "universal" banks. The result ofthe race to the bottom, however,>> as Ireland, Iceland, the UK, and U.S. allexperienced is that we create>> intensely criminogenic environment thatcreates epidemics of "control fraud.">> Control fraud -- frauds led by CEOs who use

seemingly legitimate entities as>> "weapons" to defraud -- cause greaterfinancial losses than all other forms of>> property crime -- combined. Because of thepolitical power of the SDIs and>> the destruction of effective regulation thesefraudulent SDIs now commit>> endemic fraud with impunity.>>>> Effective financial regulation is essential ifmarkets are to work.>> Regulators have to serve as the "cops on

the beat" to keep the fraudsters from>> gaining a competitive advantage over honestfirms. George Akerlof, the>> economist who identified and labeled thisperverse ("Gresham's") dynamic was>> awarded the Nobel Prize in 2001 for hisinsight about how control fraud makes>> market forces perverse.>>>> [D]ishonest dealings tend to drive honest



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dealings out of the market. The>> cost of dishonesty, therefore, lies not only inthe amount by which the>> purchaser is cheated; the cost also mustinclude the loss incurred from>> driving legitimate business out of existence.George Akerlof (1970).

>>>> One of the most perceptive observers ofhumanity recognized this same dynamic>> two centuries before Akerlof.>>>> "The Lilliputians look upon fraud as agreater crime than theft. For, they>> allege, care and vigilance, with a verycommon understanding, can protect a>> mans goods from thieves, but honesty hathno fence against superior cunning.>> . . where fraud is permitted or connived at,

or hath no law to punish it, the>> honest dealer is always undone, and theknave gets the advantage." Swift, J.>> Gullivers Travels>>>> We are the allies of honest banks andbankers. We are their essential allies,>> for only effective regulation permits them toexist and prosper. Think of>> what would happen to banks if we took theregular cops off the beat and>> stopped prosecuting bank robbers. That's

what happens when we take the>> regulatory cops off the beat. The onlydifference is that it is the>> controlling officers who loot the bank in theabsence of the regulatory cops>> on the beat. It is the anti-regulators whoare the enemy of honest banks and>> bankers.>>>> Top criminologists, effective financialregulators, and Nobel Laureates in>> economics have confirmed that epidemics of

control fraud, such as the FBI>> warned of in September 2004, can causefinancial bubbles to hyper-inflate and>> drive catastrophic financial crises. Indeed,the FBI predicted in September>> 2004 that the developing "epidemic" ofmortgage fraud would cause a financial>> "crisis" if it were not stopped. It grewmassively after 2004. The>> fraudulent SDIs (who were far broader than



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Fannie and Freddie, indeed, they>> only began to dominate the secondarymarket in sales of fraudulent loans after>> 2005) ignored the FBI and industry fraudwarnings for the most obvious of>> reasons -- they were leaders the frauds.The ongoing U.S. crisis was driven

>> overwhelmingly by fraudulent "liar's" loans.Studies have shown that the>> incidence of fraud in liar's loans is 90%(MBA/MARI 2006) and that by 2006>> roughly one-third of all mortgage loans wereliar's loans (Credit Suisse>> 2007). Rajdeep Sengupta, an economist atthe Federal Reserve Bank of St.>> Louis, reported in 2010 in an article entitled

Alt-A: The Forgotten Segment>> of the Mortgage Market that:>>

>> "[B]etween 2003 and 2006 subprime andAlt-A [loans grew] 94 and 340 percent,>> respectively. The higher levels oforiginations after 2003 were largely>> sustained by the growth of the nonprime(both the subprime and Alt-A) segment>> of the mortgage market.">>>> Sengupta's data greatly understate the roleof Alt-A loans (the euphemism>> for liars loans) for they ignore the factthat by 2006 half of the loans

>> called subprime were also liars loans(Credit Suisse: 2007). It was the>> massive growth in fraudulent liars loans thathyper-inflated and greatly>> extended the life of the bubble, producingthe Great Recession. The growth of>> fraudulent loans rapidly increased, ratherthan decreased, after government>> and industry anti-fraud specialists warnedthat liar's loans were endemically>> fraudulent. No one in the government evertold a bank that it had to make or

>> purchase a "liar's" loan. No honestmortgage lender would make liar's loans>> because doing so must cause severe losses.Criminologists, economists aware

>> of the relevant criminological and economicsliterature on control fraud, and>> a host of investigations have confirmed theendemic nature of control fraud in>> the ongoing U.S. crisis.>>



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>> But the banking elites that led these fraudshave been able to do so with>> impunity from prosecution. Take on federalagency, the Office of Thrift>> Supervision (OTS). During the S&L debacle,the OTS made well over 10,000>> criminal referrals and made the removal of

control frauds from the industry>> and their prosecution its top two priorities.The agency's support and the

>> provision of 1000 FBI agents to investigatethe cases led to the felony>> conviction of over 1,000 S&L frauds. Thebulk of those convictions came from>> the "Top 100" list that OTS and the FBIcreated to prioritize the>> investigation of the worst failed S&Ls. Inthe ongoing crisis -- which caused>> losses 40 times larger than the S&L debacle,

the OTS made zero criminal>> referrals, the FBI (as recently as FY 2007)assigned only 120 agents>> nationally to respond to the well over onemillion cases of mortgage fraud>> that occurred annually, and the OTS' non-effort produced no convictions of any>> S&L control frauds. OTS' sister agencies,the Fed and the OCC, have the same>> record of not even attempting to identifyand prosecute the frauds. The FDIC>> was better, but still only a shadow of what it

was in fighting fraud in the>> early 1990s. If control frauds can operatewith impunity from criminal>> prosecutions, then the perverse Gresham'sdynamic is maximized and market>> forces will increasingly drive honest banksand firms from the marketplace.>>>> The Financial Crisis Inquiry Commissionreported on the results of the Great>> Recession that was driven by this fraudepidemic:

>>>> "As this report goes to print, there are morethan 26 million Americans who>> are out of work, cannot find full-time work,or have given up looking for>> work. About>> four million families have lost their homes toforeclosure and another four>> and a half million have slipped into theforeclosure process or are seriously



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>> behind on their>> mortgage payments. Nearly $11 trillion inhousehold wealth has vanished, with>> retirement accounts and life savings sweptaway. Businesses, large and small,>> have felt the sting of a deep recession.">>

>> It is the fraudulent SDIs that are themassive job killers and wealth>> destroyers. It is the Great Recession thatthe fraudulent SDIs produced that>> caused most of the growth in the federaldeficits and made the fiscal crises>> in our states and localities acute. The seniorofficers that led the control>> frauds are the opposite of the "productiveclass." No one, without the aid of>> an army, has ever destroyed more wealthand dreams than the control frauds.

>> It is past to hold them accountable, to helptheir victims recover, and to end>> their ongoing frauds and corruption thathave crippled our economy, our>> democracy, and our nation. jj>>>> Best,>> Bill Black>>

________________________________________>> From: David DeGraw[[email protected]]

>> Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 12:33 PM>> To: [email protected];[email protected]; Winter Siroco;>> [email protected];[email protected];>> [email protected]; Nomi; Black,William; [email protected];>> Michael; Mike Papantonio; Michael Krieger;George Washington; Tyler Durden;>> [email protected]; Karl; Barry; KevinZeese; max; Matt; Simon; Zach; David>> Cay Johnston; Bill Laggner; Paul; Noam

Chomsky; Moyers, Bill;>> [email protected];[email protected];[email protected]>> Subject: Re: OccupyWallStreet EconomicStatement Draft 1>>>> here it is w/ Dylan's suggested revisions, theending needs smoothing out,>> let's see if we can finalize something tonight


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in GA - flooded w/ calls rght>> now, will be on NBC w/ Brian William tonight>>>> STATEMENT:>>>> we are publishing this statement in responseto misinformation being spread

>> throughout some media outlets, we wouldlike to issue the statement below to>> give some clarification as to why we arecurrently occupying Wall Street:>>>> Now let us make something clear to ourfellow American citizens. We - old,>> young, rich, poor, middle class, black, white,blue, red, hippies,>> conservatives, liberals, soldiers, teachers,lawyers, doctors, firefighters,>> and yes, police officers - the people

occupying Wall Street, are not against>> rich people for being rich, as variouscorporate media outlets are attempting>> to make you think we are. We believewealth should be a byproduct of working>> together to solve our problems with alignedinterests. To clarify, what we are>> fighting against are the people, politiciansand corporations who are>> responsible for trillions of dollars in fraud.We are fighting a political

>> system that has been hijacked and rigged

against hardworking Americans by the>> global financial elite. We are rebellingagainst economic tyranny. We are>> defending the United States against anoccupying global financial oligarchy.>>>> Our families have endured financialoppression for long enough.>>>> We are here to defend the people of theUnited Sates. America has been>> invaded and is currently occupied by global

banks that have systematically>> looted our economy and destroyed oureconomic future. Through a system of>> political bribery - campaign finance, lobbyingand the revolving door between>> Washington and Wall Street the globalfinancial elite have bought off our>> politicians and now dominate our politicalprocess.>>



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>> So-called too big to fail financialcompanies, such as Goldman Sachs, JP>> Morgan Chase, Bank of America andCitigroup are responsible for trillions of>> dollars in fraudulent activity. As their globalderivative Ponzi scheme began>> to crash, these global corporations got paid

off politicians and the Federal>> Reserve to give them over $20 trilliondollars in taxpayer money and>> subsidies. After these global banks crashedour economy and took trillions of>> dollars of our national wealth, which savedtheir insolvent companies from>> going out of business, they turned aroundand had the audacity to give>> themselves all-time record-breakingbonuses.>>

>> They used our tax dollars to give themselvesall-time recording-breaking>> bonuses.>>>> At a time of national crisis, with calls forshared sacrifice, they used our>> tax dollars to give themselves all-timerecord-breaking bonuses.>>>> As a result of their actions, our country hasbeen economically attacked. The>> statistics speak for themselves.

>>>> According to the National Academy ofSciences, we have over 50 million>> Americans living in poverty. This shockingnumber of American families>> currently living in poverty is at an all-timehigh. Over 50 million Americans>> are also without health care. 46 million

Americans are relying on food stamps>> to feed their families. Over 64 million

Americans have zero or negative net>> worth. Over 200 million Americans are living

paycheck to paycheck desperately>> struggling to make ends meet as they areburied in debt. As this dire>> situation grows even more severe, theglobal financial elite are richer than>> ever. Over the course of the pastgeneration, they have consolidated wealth>> in unprecedented fashion. We currently havethe highest inequality of wealth>> in American history. Not even the Robber



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From: [email protected] on behalf ofdiane sare

To: [email protected]

Subject: Re: [september17discuss] Re: OccupyWallStreet Economic Statement Draft 1

Date: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 8:44:23 AM

Reinstating the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act would take care of both 2 and 3. There is abill to do this, HR1489, in the Congress and rumors that it may soon be introduced

in the senate. Obama said last year when Glass-Steagall came up that he wouldveto it if it passed in the Congress. Obviously this is considered a big deal which iswhy many Wall Street people try to lie and say that it would have no impact.Hopefully support of Glass-Steagall is not something which Obama feels is groundsfor extra-judicial assassination, as he just authorized against 2 American citizens in

Yemen.

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 8:16 AM, Winter Siroco wrote:I hope that people are for major and enduring transformations, not for minorreforms.Cesar

On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 7:24 AM, Barry Ritholtz wrote:Folks:

In terms of goals and desires, the simpler and more fundamental a list, themore like that actual change can be effected.I would keep it focused on finance (ie. Wall Street) and on issues thatactually matter and can be a rallying cry for the nation.We don't want a top 10 list -- at least not as the main goals -- it becomestoo unfocused.

I suggest 3 goals, with specific political action to follow

1. Get dirty Wall St Money out of politics/legislative process2. No more bailouts3. End TBTF banks

The legislative goals of each could be as follows:

1. CAMPAIGN FINANCE: Constitutional amendment changing the rules ofcampaign finance, providing public finance, removing the massive inflow of

cash -- I believe Dylan called auctioning our Congress to the highest bidder.A national campaign to get that amendment on every ballot in every state isa very doable goal.(Marketing: "Take Congress back from Wall St!")

2. BAILOUTS: No more bailouts is obvious -- time to end private gains andsocialized losses of crony capitalism(Marketing: "Bring Back Real Capitalism!" )


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3. TBTF: As George Shultz famously said, "If they're too big to fail, makethem smaller."The bailouts have made the TBTF banks an even bigger, less competitiveoligarchy. Bring back competition by limiting the size of these, either interms of % of deposits or dollar amounts. Many ways to accomplish this,including an FDIC caps on insurance would be effective.

(Bring now private citizen Sheila Bair into the discussion)

These are all doable measurable goals, that can have a real impact onlegislation, the economy and taxes.

But do understand this: Whatever is accomplished will be temporarywithout campaign finance reform . . .

Barry L. Ritholtz

CEO, Director of Equity Research

Fusion IQ

535 Fifth Avenue, 25th floor

New York, NY 10017

212-661-2022 x7104

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Big Picture: Macro perspectives on the Capital Markets, Economy, and Geopolitics

http://www.ritholtz.com/

On Oct 4, 2011, at 6:52 PM, George Washington wrote:

Since so many people think there is alreadyan official list ofdemands, I wrote this to clear the air:

No, There Is NOT a List of OfficialDemands from the Protesters

As a side note, this guy has an interesting list:

1) End the Collusion Between Government and LargeCorporations/Banks, So That Our Elected Leaders Are ActuallyRepresenting the Interests of the People (the 99%) and Not JustTheir Rich Donors (the 1%).


http://www.ritholtz.com/http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/no-there-is-not-a-list-of-official-demands-from-the-protesters.htmlhttp://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/no-there-is-not-a-list-of-official-demands-from-the-protesters.htmlhttp://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/7-demands-from-occupy-wall-street/http://www.goldstockbull.com/articles/7-demands-from-occupy-wall-street/http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/no-there-is-not-a-list-of-official-demands-from-the-protesters.htmlhttp://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/no-there-is-not-a-list-of-official-demands-from-the-protesters.htmlhttp://www.ritholtz.com/

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2) Investigate Wall Street and Hold Senior Executives Accountable forthe Destruction in Wealth that has Devastated Millions of People.

3) Return the Power of Coining Money to the U.S. Treasury andReturn to Sound Money

4) Limit the Size, Scope and Power of Banks so that None are Ever

Again Too Big to Fail and in Need to Taxpayer Bailouts

5) Eliminate Personhood Legal Status for Corporations

6) Repeal the Patriot Act, End the War on Drugs and Protect CivilLiberties

7) End All Imperial Wars of Aggression, Bring the Troops Home fromAll Countries, Cut the Military Budget and Limit The Military Role toProtection of the Homeland

Curious if both liberals and conservatives on this list informally (andconfidentially) agree.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Yves Smith wrote:

Right now, more people show up for work every day at Goldmanthan have shown up for these protests.

We know that the grievances of the protestors are widely shared.But the risk is that demands lead to some sort of Potemkinnegotations or dismissals in the press as to how unrealistic thedemands are ("Throw Wall Street execs in jail! We tried that, theysucceeded in getting the laws gutted so there is no way to do that.So you want us to become a nation of vigilantes?")

The more people show up, continue to look like a good crosssection of America, and make statements individually (via sites likeWe are the 99%, via their placards or when interviewed with thepress) that resonate with people, the more the space of what ispossible gets bigger.

This is starting to change what it is acceptable to say in the media.That's very good initial progress.

On Oct 4, 2011, at 4:19 PM, Michael Hudson wrote:

I should have added that it is easiest to agree

on what the SYMPTOMS are. The economy is

dying. Its being killed by financial mismanagers.

Its polarizing.

Neither party is addressing the root causes



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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thats really why these guys are out there.

Michael

On 10/4/11 3:56 PM, "Yves Smith"

wrote:

My concern re stating formal and explicit

demands is that the officialdom will start

an effort to pretend to address the

demands or negotiate with "leaders" as a

way to keep more people from turning

out. A sustained effort that keeps

growing, even it it grows slowly (and the

growth may not be slow) is reallydisconcerting to the officialdom. It's

something they cant contain and don't

know how to deal with.

My reader tell me the movement in Spain

developed along precisely these lines,

there were no formal overarching

goals/demand articulated, but there was a

lot of discussion among various groups atthe local level as to what their grievances

were.

They also said the protests were

transformational on a broader social level.

Letting it percolate slowly seems to have

been very powerful. It helps for people to

find their voice.

It's pretty obvious what the protestors

want. That's why the call for demands is

awfully disingenuous.

On Oct 4, 2011, at 3:34 PM, Matthew



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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Taibbi wrote:

Let me ask you a question. If

this were the Iraq war you were

protesting instead of Wall

Street corruption, would it be

"naive" to demand a

withdrawal from Iraq?

Are you saying it's "naive"

because it's unreasonable to

expect results? I don't

understand the use of that word

in this context.

--- On Tue, 10/4/11, Cesar

wrote:

From: Cesar

Subject: Re:

OccupyWallStreet

Economic

Statement Draft 1

To: "Matthew

Taibbi"

Cc: "Yves Smith", "Dylan

Ratigan"

, "Michael

Hudson"

8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

21/250

arthlink.net>,

"WilliamBlack"

, "David

DeGraw"

,

"september17@goo

glegroups.com"

,

"yotam.marom@g

mail.com"

,"vlad@glassbeadcol

lective.com"

,

"dissector@mediac

hannel.org"

,

"Nomi", "Michael"

,

"Mike Papantonio"

,

"MichaelKrieger"

, "George

Washington"

, "Tyler

Durden"


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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,

"ellenhbrown@gma

il.com"

, "Karl", "Barry"

, "Kevin

Zeese"

, "max"

, "Matt", "Simon"

,

"Zach"

, "David

CayJohnston"

, "Bill

Laggner"

, "Paul"

,

"Noam Chomsky"

, "BillMoyers",

"ggreenwald@salon

.com"

,


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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"glen.ford@blackag

endareport.com"

,

"oftwomindz@com

cast.net"

Date: Tuesday,

October 4, 2011,

3:05 PM

I am for

elaborating

collective discourse,but perhaps better

in terms of general

GOALS rather than

demands. Demads

are naive at this

point, to put it

shoftly.

This is not

incompatible withstrategic actions

that may achieve

short term

victories. Due to

our location I think

we should provide

our view of the

economic facts, and

prioritize ouractions toward

short term and long

term solutions.

Regarding the

elaboration of

collective discourse,


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

24/250

perhaps we should

try some form of

open source or

similar wiki-process

that would facilitate

multiplecontributions from

diverse viewpoints.

Cesar

Sent from phone

On Oct 4, 2011, at10:40 AM, Matthew

Taibbi

wrote:

I disagree

with the

notion

that there

shouldn't

be

demands.

I thinkthere

should be

a few

simple

ones. It's

not a

MSM


mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]:[email protected]

8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

25/250

conspirac

y when

the press

wonders

what the

movementwants or

who is

leading it.

I think

there are

a lot of

people in

the press

and evenon Wall

Street

who are

ready to

support

the

movement

wholehear

tedly, if itcould

articulate

some

specifics.

If OWS

could

identify a

few basicproblems

-- over-

concentra

tion of

capital,

regulatory



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

26/250

capture,

overweeni

ng

influence

of money

onpolitics,

excess

financializ

ation of

the

economy,

tax

unfairness

, etc --and

propose

some

first-step

solutions

to all of

those

things

(break upthe banks,

force

bailout

recipients

to give up

lobbying,

end the

carried

interestand

capital

gains

exemption

s as

Michael



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

27/250

points

out, etc),

you'd

have more

allies,

you'd beeducating

the public

about a

subject

that it has

a tough

time

getting

realinformati

on about

through

normal

media,

and it

would

prevent

the otherside of the

debate

from

being able

to define

the

movement

in their

own(inevitabl

y

unflatteri

ng) terms.

The only



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

28/250

thing

preventin

g millions

of people

from

going outonto the

streets on

their own

is that

they don't

understan

d how

Wall

Streetworks or

what it

does. That

to me is

why the

movement

needs to

be

specific. Ithas a

responsibi

lity to

explain

these

problems

to the

general

publicand to

show that

solutions

do exist

and that

they're



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

29/250

attainable

. People I

think

need more

than just

theknowledg

e that

they can

protest --

they need

to believe

that they

can fix

things andthat

someone

out there

has the

answers.

And a lot

of the

people on

this emaillist do

have the

answers

and could

provide

that

leadership

that is so

desperately needed.



8/3/2019 _USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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--- On

Tue,

10/4/11,

Dylan

Ratigan

wrote:

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Emails come from PST files that were linked to a post on biggovernment.com by Thomas Ryan. PDF by www.

Date post:	07-Apr-2018
Category:	Documents
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_USDOR 0911-1013 ab_Part16

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