Post on 17-Jul-2020
transcript
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
1
Pages 1-73
________________________________________________
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
RE: REST OF RIVER
DRAFT PERMIT MODIFICATION
________________________________________________
PUBLIC HEARING FOR
REST OF THE RIVER
DRAFT PERMIT MODIFICATION
HELD SEPTEMBER 23, 2014 AT THE
LENOX MEMORIAL MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOL
197 EAST STREET
LENOX, MASSACHUSETTS
Reporter: Raymond F. Catuogno, Jr.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
2
1 SPEAKERS: PAGE
2 Mr. Cianciarulo ............................ 3
3 Mr. deFur .................................. 7
4 Mr. Larson ................................. 12
5 Ms. Cushing ................................ 14
6 Ms. Andersen ............................... 19
7 Mr. Regan .................................. 22
8 Mr. Cook ................................... 26
9 Mr. Federer ................................ 32
10 Ms. Cianfarini ............................. 32
11 Mr. Gray ................................... 38
12 Mr. Friedman ............................... 42
13 Mr. Cianfarini ............................. 45
14 Mr. Kronberg ............................... 47
15 Mr. Berkel ................................. 50
16 Mr. Alsop .................................. 51
17 Mr. deFur .................................. 55
18 Ms. Barzottini ............................. 57
19 Ms. Miller ................................. 58
20
21
22
23
24
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
3
1 1 MR. CIANCIARULO: Good
2 2 evening. My name is Bob Cianciarulo and
3 3 I'm from the EPA Region One office in
4 4 Boston. We're here tonight for the public
5 5 hearing regarding the Draft Modification
6 6 to the reissue RCRA Permit for the General
7 7 Electric Company facility in Pittsfield,
8 8 Massachusetts. I will be the presiding
9 9 officer for this hearing. This hearing is
10 10 now come to order.
11 11 RCRA or the Resource
12 12 Conservation Recovery Act is a federal law
13 13 addressing hazardous and solid waste. In
14 14 1991, EPA issued GE a permit for
15 15 corrective action regarding releases of
16 16 hazardous waste, including PCBs, at the
17 17 GE's Pittsfield facility. That corrective
18 18 action permit has been modified or reissue
19 19 several times since 1994. The reissue
20 20 corrective permit is part of a larger
21 21 Consent Decree under which GE is required,
22 22 among other things, to complete
23 23 investigation and remediation of different
24 24 areas of contamination in Pittsfield and
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
4
1 1 three segments of the Housatonic River.
2 2 The hearing tonight is with
3 3 respect to the Rest of River segment of
4 4 the Housatonic River. This Rest of River
5 5 is from a confluence of the east and west
6 6 branches of the river in Pittsfield just
7 7 below Fred Garner Park flowing through
8 8 Massachusetts and Connecticut for roughly
9 9 125 miles. Under the decrees and the
10 10 reissue RCRA permit, GE is required to
11 11 perform certain investigation and analysis
12 12 of the Rest of River based on the
13 13 administrative record filed, which
14 14 includes the information submitted by GE
15 15 as well as other information EPA has
16 16 proposed, to remedial action for the Rest
17 17 of River. That proposal is in the Draft
18 18 Permit Modification and Statement of Basis
19 19 issued in June 2014.
20 20 EPA held information sessions
21 21 here in Lenox on June 18, 2014 and in
22 22 Kent, Connecticut on June 24, 2014. The
23 23 formal public comment period for the Draft
24 24 Permit Modification began on June 25, 2014
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
5
1 and is scheduled to end on October 27,
2 2014. Following the closure of the
3 comment period, EPA will review and
4 consider all comments received during the
5 public comment period both in writing and
6 provided verbally at this hearing.
7 Under the decree, the next
8 steps are as follows: EPA is to notify GE
9 of EPA's intended final decision on the
10 Permit Modification, after which GE has
11 the opportunity to dispute EPA's intended
12 final decision. After completion of the
13 dispute resolution period, or GE does not
14 invoke dispute resolution after thirty
15 days from EPA's notification to GE, EPA is
16 to issue a final modification of the
17 reissue RCRA permit. That final permit,
18 unless appealed, will obligate GE to
19 perform the EPA-selected cleanup.
20 At this hearing, any person
21 may submit oral or written statements and
22 data concerning the Draft Permit
23 Modification. EPA will not be responding
24 formally tonight to oral or written
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
6
1 statements. When EPA issues a final
2 permit modification decision, EPA will
3 issue a response to comments. The hearing
4 is being transcribed by EPA to make ensure
5 that all comments are received and the
6 hearing is being taped and recorded. And
7 in addition to making comments today, you
8 may also provide written comments to the
9 EPA during the public comment period.
10 To help make this hearing run
11 smoothly, I ask anyone who would like to
12 make a statement come to the microphone
13 set up on either side of the stage here.
14 Before you begin your statement, please
15 identify yourself and for the aid of our
16 stenographer, spell your name, and provide
17 your affiliation for the record. There
18 are a lot of people here tonight. To
19 ensure that everyone has an opportunity to
20 express their views, I ask that you limit
21 your comments to five minutes. At any
22 time, if you're asked to stop, but you
23 have not completed your comments, I will
24 ask that you defer the remainder of your
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
7
1 comments until each person has had an
2 initial opportunity to comment. If there
3 is time at the end of the evening, we'll
4 give you an opportunity to finish those
5 comments. If you have a written
6 statement, you may read it, if it can be
7 done in five minutes. If not, I would ask
8 you to summarize those comments and submit
9 that written comments for the record. In
10 either case, I encourage you to submit a
11 written statement tonight or before the
12 close -- of the end of the close of the
13 public comment period. With that, I
14 invite anyone wishing to make a comment to
15 step to the microphones.
16 MR. deFUR: My name is Peter
17 deFur. I don't think it's coming across.
18 I live in Richmond, Virginia. D-E,
19 capital F-U-R. I'm a consultant at
20 Environmental Stewardship Concepts. I
21 work under a technical assistant grant
22 from EPA to the Housatonic River
23 Initiative for whom I work. I'm here to
24 provide comments on the Draft Permit and
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
8
1 Basis.
2 Basically, they are inadequate
3 to protect the public health and the
4 environmental ecological receptors. They
5 do not remove enough of the PCB mass or
6 the contaminated sediment from the river,
7 the river system, the floodplains, vernal
8 pools, or any of the associated areas.
9 The result is that for the foreseeable
10 future, if not in perpetuity, the region
11 will be contaminated with PCBs. The
12 problem will be that low level PCBs will
13 continue to poison wildlife, they will
14 continue to poison the river, they will
15 continue to be transported down river,
16 accumulate in sediment and accumulate in
17 wildlife.
18 We know from extensive
19 research on human health and ecological
20 systems that PCBs are incredibly toxic at
21 low levels. Every year we learn new
22 dangers from PCBs. Just last year the
23 World Health Organization determined that
24 PCBs are a known human carcinogen.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
9
1 Continued research in the peer review
2 literature indicates that community
3 members surrounding PCB-contaminated sites
4 have elevated concentrations of PCBs in
5 their bodies. The entire community around
6 the Housatonic River is likely exposed to
7 PCBs at levels that are causing biological
8 responses, including depressed immune
9 systems, learning disabilities in
10 children, and abnormal development of the
11 fetus.
12 Wildlife studies come out anew
13 every month indicating that low levels of
14 PCBs interfere not only with fish
15 reproduction, amphibian reproduction, bird
16 reproduction, but also with bird behavior
17 and bird songs. And that these are not
18 limited to birds. That the soil
19 invertebrates, the insects, the worms, and
20 the minute crustaceans that live not only
21 in the river, but also in the soils, are
22 subject to these same adverse effects.
23 All of these combine to make it more
24 imperative that the Draft Permit and Basis
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
10
1 be modified to remove a much greater mass
2 of PCBs from the system.
3 One of the consequences is
4 going to be if the permit is implemented
5 as written, that there will be a great
6 amount of hardscape, that is fixed channel
7 river. That fixed channel river is simply
8 not practical under the current scenario
9 of weather changes and the known increase
10 in severe weather that is going to occur
11 in this system as well as others. We have
12 already seen it, and it's only going to
13 get worse. Which means that the river's
14 normal meander is going to meander even
15 more in the coming years, which will make
16 any hard fix, any hard remediation, such
17 as bunkering and riprap, it is going to be
18 impermanent even if we think it is going
19 to be permanent.
20 Ecology and restoration
21 methods have advanced manyfold in the last
22 ten or fifteen years. The Housatonic
23 River in this region is ripe for using the
24 newest techniques for restoration. It is
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
11
1 also ripe for using the most recent modern
2 methods in remediation, that is for
3 removal. Not large scale, bulk, steam
4 shovel type of removal of sediments, but
5 pinpointed hydraulic removal with piping
6 down to centrally located processing
7 areas, where in some cases we can even
8 pilot new modern techniques for PCB
9 detoxification, dechlorination, and
10 elimination.
11 In closing I want to point out
12 also that other sites are using plant
13 banks to extract the plants that are in
14 place that need to be remediated and
15 culturing those elsewhere for use when the
16 restoration occurs. We recognize that
17 what is going to happen here if this plan
18 is implemented as written, is that humans
19 will continue to be exposed at excess
20 levels, wildlife will continue to be
21 exposed at excess levels, all sorts of
22 invertebrates and even microbes will be
23 exposed at levels that are known to cause
24 effects. Nobody knows how those effects
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
12
1 alter the entire ecosystem.
2 I will be submitting written
3 comments for the record on behalf of HRI.
4 Thank you very much for your time and
5 attention.
6 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
7 MR. LARSON: My name is Joseph
8 Larson, L-A-R-S-O-N. I'm an emeritus
9 professor of environmental conservation at
10 the University of Massachusetts, Amherst.
11 Tonight I would be speaking for the
12 Massachusetts Fisheries and Wildlife board
13 of which I'm a member.
14 The Division of Fisheries and
15 Wildlife, which is supervised by our board
16 is the largest landowner in the affected
17 area of the Housatonic. The land and
18 wetlands in our care were acquired by gift
19 or purchase from donors and funds, where
20 the expectation, backed by our pledge, is
21 that these areas would be preserved in
22 perpetuity for their natural and
23 recreational values. They are officially
24 recognized by the state and other
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
13
1 authorities for its unique and rich
2 natural resources. It is also an area
3 that is highly valued for outdoor
4 recreation by residents of Massachusetts.
5 It annually attracts people from across
6 the state and from other states in the
7 nation.
8 Our board recognizes that the
9 PCB contamination poses a public health
10 risk that must be addressed. We have
11 provided extensive assistance to the EPA
12 in the form of division staff time, field
13 studies, and scientific analysis. We are
14 also aware that there is no silver bullet
15 solution that applies to every area that
16 is contaminated with PCBs. Each area in
17 the nation where PCB contamination exists
18 has required development of a unique
19 approach that cannot be simply copied for
20 any other contaminated area.
21 This plan, including mass
22 removal of PCBs from Woods Pond, presented
23 by EPA, has been crafted to responsibly
24 address public health risks while at the
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
14
1 same time responsibly maintaining as much
2 as possible of the natural and
3 recreational values of this section of the
4 Housatonic. It's been a difficult
5 balancing act, but it is a Housatonic
6 plan, and it has our full support.
7 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
8 MS. CUSHING: My name is Becky
9 Cushing, C-U-S-H-I-N-G. I'm the sanctuary
10 director for Mass Audubon's Berkshire Wild
11 Life Sanctuaries.
12 Mass Audubon has been closely
13 engaged in the planning process for the
14 cleanup of PCBs for the Housatonic River
15 for many years. The following comments
16 are preliminary and provide an overview of
17 key points from our perspective. We will
18 be developing more detailed written
19 comments during the extended comment
20 period, and we appreciate the additional
21 time provided for comment.
22 This remediation planning
23 process has taken decades, and the cleanup
24 is projected to take more than another
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
15
1 decade to complete, once approved. This
2 is unfortunate, yet not unexpected, as
3 remediation of such extensive
4 contamination of the environment with
5 persistent, insidious toxic substances
6 must proceed with appropriate care and
7 deliberation. It is also vitally
8 important that the remediation plans
9 provide the opportunity to learn from
10 experience as cleanup phases proceed,
11 include flexibility to incorporate
12 improved science and methods as they
13 become available, and address the
14 inherently dynamic nature of river
15 systems.
16 Mass Audubon is both a
17 directly impacted landowner at our Canoe
18 Meadows Wildlife Sanctuary, and has a
19 broader interest in the conservation and
20 restoration of the Housatonic River
21 ecosystem for the benefit of both people
22 and wildlife Our property is located at
23 the head of the Rest of the River, where
24 the methods for the cleanup will first be
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
16
1 applied, and this property contains
2 habitat for numerous rare and common
3 species of plants and animals.
4 We are encouraged in several
5 respects by the Statement of Basis and
6 Draft Permit in that they explicitly
7 address several of our previous key
8 comments. Notably, the concepts of
9 project phasing and adaptive management
10 have been incorporated. The conceptual
11 cleanup plan also recognizes the
12 sensitivity of the natural ecosystems
13 located within the project area, and calls
14 for higher levels of protection for some
15 of the most sensitive features, such as
16 endangered plants.
17 Despite this progress,
18 however, the documents fall short of
19 providing a clear plan for the proposed
20 work, nor do they address critically
21 important factors that will affect the
22 integrity and effectiveness of the
23 remediation over the long term. Riverine
24 systems such as the Housatonic are
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
17
1 inherently unstable and dynamic. The
2 documents attribute much of the
3 instability of current eroding banks to
4 historic land uses that disrupted flow
5 regimes, and predicts that the system will
6 reach dynamic equilibrium in the near
7 future. This ignores the fact that rivers
8 by their very nature move and shift in the
9 landscape over time, and that climate
10 change is leading to more intense and
11 extreme storm events that increase the
12 likelihood of catastrophic floods.
13 Leaving significant amount of PCBs within
14 floodplains in the most ecologically
15 sensitive areas may be appropriate for the
16 short term as a first phase of cleanup.
17 It is not, however, wise in the long term
18 context given the persistence and toxicity
19 of these chemicals. The plans should be
20 revised to provide for future additional
21 remediation, incorporating more extensive
22 application of adaptive management
23 principles and development of more refined
24 ecological restoration methods. The final
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
18
1 plan also needs to include plans for
2 response to extreme catastrophic flood
3 events that disrupt large areas of river
4 bank, bottom sediments, and floodplain.
5 This Statement of Basis and
6 Draft Permit do not, in fact, constitute a
7 comprehensive cleanup plan. Rather they
8 outline a conceptual approach. Additional
9 information is required as stated in the
10 Draft Permit, including further sampling;
11 as well the work plan, schedule, and
12 sequencing of work; access points;
13 material and equipment stockpiling
14 locations and haul roads; community health
15 and safety plan; restoration plan;
16 adaptive management plan; dam operation
17 and maintenance plan; invasive species
18 control plan, institutional control plan;
19 and plan for further response actions.
20 The draft permit calls for General
21 Electric to submit all of these documents
22 to EPA for review and approval, but there
23 is no formal opportunity for effected
24 landowners or the public to review and
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
19
1 comment on these vitally important details
2 before they are finalized and implemented.
3 Mass Audubon calls on GE and EPA to
4 provide for further opportunity for input,
5 particularly from effected landowners, the
6 surrounding and downstream communities,
7 and other stakeholders, such as people who
8 have an interest in recreational uses of
9 the river.
10 Thank you for considering
11 these comments.
12 MS. ANDERSEN: Good evening, I
13 am Valerie Andersen, A-N-D-E-R-S-E-N. I
14 live in Pittsfield. I favor a robust
15 cleanup of the Housatonic River. The EPA
16 plan is good in some respects. The phased
17 plan I think is good in that no one town
18 will have the work done for the whole
19 project time. For example, in Pittsfield,
20 the work would only take five years, which
21 is less than the amount of time it took to
22 remediate the first three miles in
23 Pittsfield. So it would be cleaned up
24 within a five-year time period in
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
20
1 Pittsfield. Another good thing about the
2 plan is that it does call for some
3 adaptive technologies.
4 However, where the plan falls
5 short is that it would leave what is known
6 as core areas contaminated up to 49 parts
7 per million. Now, people probably don't
8 realize it, but if there is 50 parts per
9 million, that is the highest level toxic
10 landfill standard, called the TSCA
11 landfill. Fifty parts per million is a
12 TSCA landfill, a toxic waste dump. And
13 your plan is allowing up to 49 parts per
14 million. So just one little part per
15 million less. So in effect, it's like the
16 plan is allowing all these little toxic
17 waste dumps in the core areas to be left
18 there. And the rationale is for a guise
19 of sustaining habitats. But it makes no
20 sense to sustain a polluted habitat. So
21 we're going to have all of these little
22 toxic waste dumps left there, up to 49
23 parts per million, when 50 would be a
24 highly regulated toxic landfill.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
21
1 There's many of us in this
2 community who have been affected by cancer
3 in our families, rare blood disease,
4 multiple sclerosis. PCBs are really toxic
5 poisons that should be cleaned up, and we
6 should not let there be pockets of little
7 toxic landfills in the Rest of the River.
8 We have a responsible party,
9 General Electric, one of the richest
10 corporations in the world who has the
11 resources to do a cleanup of this area.
12 We should do it now; we should not wait.
13 We should not do a half-baked cleanup
14 right now, because in the future, you
15 might have to come back. And those people
16 who worry about disrupting neighborhoods
17 and tourist attractions and things like
18 that, it's not going to be any good for
19 the tourists or the neighbors if we have
20 to come back and do it all over again.
21 So in conclusion, I do favor a
22 robust cleanup. I think that the plan
23 proposed does not go far enough,
24 especially allowing 49 parts per million
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
22
1 to be left in the river. Thank you.
2 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
3 MR. REGAN: My name is Dennis
4 Regan, R-E-G-A-N, and I represent the
5 Housatonic Valley Association. And I
6 don't think I need to spell Housatonic. I
7 would like to thank you as well for the
8 opportunity to provide comments on the
9 draft remediation plan. However, we would
10 like to state that we feel that the
11 current proposal does not go far enough to
12 protect the health of the river, of
13 wildlife, and of human health. The
14 proposal leaves behind 75 percent of the
15 PCBs, which to us does not seem like a
16 very good remediation plan. It leaves far
17 too many PCBs behind either -- behind in
18 either the floodplain, the river bottom,
19 or under the sand rug. HVA will submit a
20 written comment that goes into more detail
21 on these issues, but for right now for
22 this presentation I will just hit some of
23 the main areas or our main concerns.
24 Primarily, it's leaving the
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
23
1 core habitat areas contaminated. These
2 areas of rare endangered species, we're
3 very fortunate we have so many in such a
4 unique area in the wildlife refuge, in
5 that area in the Rest of the River, but
6 they are contaminated. Their habitats are
7 contaminated. And they will stay
8 contaminated until we do something about
9 it. So logically, that not does not make
10 any sense at all to me.
11 EPA has also proven that they
12 can restore rare endangered species in
13 areas such as they did in the vernal pools
14 in Pittsfield, where they removed the
15 species, cleaned up the contaminated
16 sites, and replaced the species, and let
17 mother nature take its course. And that
18 has proven effective. And I think they
19 can do the same thing again here.
20 Another main concern we have
21 is the high degree of sand capping. And
22 again, we feel that capping is basically
23 sweeping the PCBs under a sand rug. It
24 may look good for now; we have serious
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
24
1 doubts it could withstand the test of
2 time, especially in an active, dynamic
3 riverbed system. We feel that there is
4 too much reliance on the use of capping
5 and would rather see actual removal of the
6 contaminated soil.
7 Another area of concern is the
8 high parts per million that is considered
9 safe for our area. That is 49 or 50 parts
10 per million, which is being proposed in
11 that area. And when we just were going
12 through the PCB remediation in Pittsfield,
13 we had 2, 10, or 25 percents that were
14 considered so-called safe levels. Well,
15 now we're thinking 49 percent is safe. If
16 we had 49 percent up in Pittsfield, that
17 would have been considered a hot spot and
18 not a safe area. So there's some
19 irregularities there, I think.
20 However, there are some
21 positive points in the remediation plan as
22 it stands right now. We're very much in
23 favor of the no onsite landfills. We are
24 very much in favor of the sediment removal
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
25
1 behind the dams. And we appreciate the
2 concern over the removal of the
3 contaminated soil, be it by -- the two
4 main areas via road or railway. And we
5 appreciate the railroad alternative,
6 although it's still going to need a lot of
7 discussions and negotiations and
8 technology, trying to figure out how to do
9 that best. And remedial technology
10 investigation, the ongoing investigation
11 that Susan so accurately placed on some
12 pixie dust that will solve the problem.
13 We're still hoping for that. And
14 continued monitoring is essential, and
15 we're very happy to see that that ia still
16 part of the plan.
17 But again, we feel that the
18 more contaminated soils need to be removed
19 from the river and floodplain. We have an
20 opportunity to remediate now and we should
21 take advantage of this opportunity rather
22 than lose it for all time. We do
23 understand the valid concerns regarding
24 the negative impacts related to this
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
26
1 remediation process. We realize that
2 there will be a cost for restoring the
3 river. I wish we didn't have to dig up
4 the river and the floodplain, but since
5 PCBs cause serious harm to wildlife and
6 humans, we feel we need to remove this
7 threat. Therefore, we feel the short-term
8 disturbances are worth the long-term
9 security of a healthy environment for us
10 and future generations.
11 We unfortunately have a river
12 that qualifies as a Super Fund site. The
13 Environmental Protection Agency's job is
14 to protect the environment and human
15 health, and I know that you want to do the
16 right thing. So, please, this is the
17 opportunity to do so. Thank you.
18 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
19 MR. COOK: Good evening. I'm
20 Jeffrey Cook. I live at 9 Palomino Drive.
21 I'm one of the coordinators of a group
22 called Ward 4 River Watch, about 400
23 families that are located on both sides of
24 the river and very concerned about the
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
27
1 impact of the cleanup on our neighborhood.
2 We're also concerned about the impact of
3 the cleanup on the wildlife areas, and
4 once again, raise the question of how do
5 we get to these standards. I have heard
6 tonight about some additional scientific
7 information, which I think we ought to
8 have a standard that when people say those
9 things, they ought to submit the report,
10 because we have more than once had a
11 situation where the study itself says we
12 can't show causality, we can show
13 associations; there is a huge difference.
14 And then people come up to the mike and
15 say, this causes this and this causes
16 that.
17 Here's some things that the
18 Department of Public Health has
19 determined, that in the Allendale area,
20 the Allendale School, around the river,
21 blood tests have been made; there is no
22 elevated level of PCBs among the
23 population. There is no detectable levels
24 of PCBs in the air above the floodplains
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
28
1 and river. But we know that is going to
2 change. Because we're going to have
3 thirteen years of digging this up. And so
4 for some of these neighborhoods, we'll
5 have five years of this stuff in the air,
6 where right now it's not there.
7 I have to say that I have
8 participated in this process for years and
9 I basically lost confidence in the EPA
10 process. And it bothers me because I like
11 a lot of you. I think this is a very
12 cynical process. We're now having
13 hearings and comment periods on what the
14 cleanup is going to be. But of course,
15 we're leaving out things like access roads
16 and staging areas, which are going to have
17 a huge impact on the areas, the
18 floodplains, the river. And it makes a
19 huge difference.
20 If we had a vacuum cleaner in
21 the sky and we could suck out all the
22 PCBs, that would be cool, and that would
23 be great. But that is not what is going
24 to happen.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
29
1 And when you say to us, oh,
2 look we're going to pump the PCBs down
3 river and don't mention that every cubic
4 yard that gets removed is going to be
5 replaced with clean fill, is that going to
6 be pumped up? So there are going to be
7 access roads and there are going to be
8 staging areas where the material is
9 dewatered and moved from one container to
10 another, where there is heavy equipment
11 stored that starts at 6:00 and 7:00 in the
12 morning. There are only so many places
13 that these things can be, and you know
14 that. And you know the likely places. So
15 when we raise the question, and you tell
16 us, no, we're not sure, it's very
17 disturbing. It's very disturbing.
18 Let's talk about rail. We're
19 talking about 10,000 truckloads a year,
20 four trucks an hour. Where is the rail
21 depot going to be to handle that material?
22 You make it sound as if the roads around
23 the neighborhoods and the river are not
24 going it be taxed, because somehow the
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
30
1 material gets to the rail. It's a monster
2 to have that kind of a rail operation.
3 Where is that going to be? We should be
4 comfortable though because we're going to
5 talk about rail.
6 The other thing that we talk
7 about is new techniques. There is no
8 likelihood that this stuff can be treated
9 today, what we know, and the levels we're
10 talking about in situ. We talked about it
11 and I have to compliment Tim Gray, because
12 I think he has worked harder than anybody,
13 on looking for alternatives. And he has
14 over the years named a few, and nothing
15 has come to the floor. So we can talk
16 about these things, but I think you know,
17 I think you, EPA, know that we're going to
18 have to excavate the river bank to bank
19 until we get down to New Lenox Road. You
20 know there is going to be access roads,
21 you know there is going to be staging
22 areas, and some of the alternatives that
23 are being suggested do not solve the
24 problem of putting back in a cubic yard of
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
31
1 material for every cubic yard of material
2 that is removed.
3 So this is all post-permit.
4 And that is where there is huge impact on
5 the environment and on the neighbors. So
6 we're going to hear that we had a process,
7 we had public hearings, we got input, and
8 we know that this is the remedy. Except
9 the remedy gets delivered a certain way
10 and that is not being discussed now.
11 So for those of us who look at
12 this in the neighborhoods, that will live
13 with this for five years, and say, what is
14 happening to us? And that is post-permit.
15 And what is going to happen to these
16 special Core 1 areas where the river bends
17 back, and you're somehow going to have the
18 equipment in there to excavate the river
19 bank to bank, but yet in the core areas
20 you're going to be able to do precise
21 digging, and that is supposed to work, and
22 that is not going to involve staging areas
23 and access roads. It's very
24 disappointing.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
32
1 I think we're doing this
2 sideways and it's more of a political than
3 a community process. And we really just
4 don't see how, in terms of the things that
5 we feel we should be able to know about
6 and comment about, you issue a permit, and
7 the impact hasn't even been talked about
8 as far as we're concerned. So we're very
9 discouraged.
10 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
11 MR. FEDERER: My name is Eric
12 Federer, F-E-D-E-R-E-R. Eric with a C. I
13 have a question, if I may ask it? Does
14 anybody know what the chemical half-life
15 is of PCBs and the most heavily
16 chlorinated; does anybody know that?
17 Okay, thank you.
18 MS. CIANFARINI: My name is
19 Barbara Cianfarini, C-I-A-N-F-A-R-I-N I.
20 I live in Pittsfield and I'm the acting
21 executive director for Citizens for PCB
22 Removal. And I also would like to thank
23 the EPA for the many, many years of very
24 difficult, complex, and sensitive work
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
33
1 that they have done addressing this mega
2 problem. And thank you for sticking to
3 it, not abandoning us, and thank you for
4 listening to us. And by us, I am
5 including the organizations of HRI; BEAT,
6 Berkshire Environmental Action Team; HEAL,
7 Housatonic Environmental Action League;
8 HVA, Dennis already spoke; and BCRPC,
9 Berkshire County Regional Planning
10 Commission, Nate Karns; and others who
11 have had advocated so hard for this river
12 over at least two decades of work, and in
13 some cases more than three decades. And
14 thank you for incorporating in this plan
15 some of the things we have advocated so
16 hard for, including the fact that you're
17 not proposing any onsite toxic waste
18 dumps, as unfortunately the previous part
19 of the cleanup had, Hill 78 and Hill 71.
20 Thank you for advocating for the use of
21 rail. We do believe it's a lower impact
22 to the community and, in fact, will be an
23 asset to the community when everything is
24 done, because we believe the rail system
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
34
1 will have to be improved and brought up to
2 standards. So then Berkshire County will
3 have that to use afterwards. And we are
4 happy that you are looking to remove it
5 and transport it out. Again, no dumps.
6 Although we would like to see more use of
7 the adaptive management which you also
8 included to hopefully treat it in situ and
9 not have to have the rail transport or any
10 other kind of transport, which addresses
11 many of the concerns of the abutters to
12 this next process.
13 However, and there is always a
14 however, we echo the concerns of our
15 colleagues who have spoken before us, that
16 the 25 percent proposed removal is nowhere
17 near enough. That 75 percent left behind
18 is frankly outrageous. If you had any
19 other situation, if you had a cancer to
20 remove, you would not remove 25 percent of
21 a cancer and leave 75 percent behind. If
22 you were treating another disease, you
23 would not aim for 25 percent abatement of
24 that disease; you would be looking for as
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
35
1 close to 100 percent as you could.
2 We -- it's obvious to us that
3 most of the contamination, based on the
4 PPMs of 49 PPMs are obviously in the core
5 areas and below the caps. And while no
6 one is advocating for the destruction of
7 the river, we -- it's not a goal, it's not
8 something we want to see; it just has to
9 be done in a way that gets rid of the
10 poison. This is a poison. And we cannot
11 leave it here in any form, in any area
12 where it can expose wildlife and human
13 beings in the future. It just doesn't
14 make sense as many other people have said.
15 And if it's left in the core areas, it
16 will impact the core areas. It's great
17 that there's rare and endangered species,
18 but why are they endangered. Could it be
19 because they are exposed to PCBs. And
20 there is no doubt in our mind that it will
21 recontaminate the entire system in the
22 future if it's left there in that amount,
23 75 percent of the total known
24 contamination. That's not even accounting
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
36
1 for what might be found that was not found
2 to date.
3 We believe that more is more,
4 not less is more. And we ask that you go
5 for the full monty, so to speak. And
6 people have not talked about the cost here
7 too much and that is a factor. But
8 frankly, the difference between 613
9 million and 900-and-something million is
10 only a 50 percent difference. And if you
11 get the 75 percent, that is 50 percent or
12 three times the value in that last 50
13 percent cost. So we believe you should be
14 looking more towards the bulk cleanup that
15 was proposed, because it's actually a
16 bigger bang for everybody's buck,
17 including GE's.
18 And we would also like to go
19 on record as Citizens for PCB Removal and
20 as a home owners' group to start with, we
21 have gone through the experience of having
22 remediation done on properties and we know
23 the process and we know how to advocate
24 for a better process and we are offering
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
37
1 our assistance to any homeowner out there
2 who would like that for themselves. You
3 do have a right to make comments. You do
4 have a right to influence this for the
5 better for yourself.
6 We also appreciate the
7 extended comment, written comment period
8 or comment period in general and we will
9 be submitting further written comments as
10 well.
11 And I would like to say one
12 more thing and that is that the basis of
13 this being capping, we just don't believe
14 in capping. Caps fail. That is the
15 bottom line. Caps fail. And especially
16 when caps are made out of nothing more
17 than the same material that is in the
18 river. That material moves around. There
19 is really nothing to prevent the cap from
20 moving around. And a prime example of
21 that is the fact that just weeks after the
22 Silver Lake project was finished to
23 fanfare and ceremony, we had a relatively
24 minor rain storm for Berkshire County, and
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
38
1 the cap of part of Silver Lake failed. I
2 can't think of any better example than
3 that.
4 Caps do not work, cleanup
5 works, removing works, treating it works,
6 getting rid of it works. Thank you.
7 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
8 MR. GRAY: Tim Gray,
9 Housatonic River Initiative. About
10 probably five, six years ago, EPA had GE
11 do the corrective measure study, and in
12 that corrective measure study was a very
13 complete cleanup plan, very strong cleanup
14 plan. Then State of Massachusetts started
15 meeting with General Electric. And then
16 after that the State of Massachusetts
17 started meeting with the EPA. Before we
18 knew it, we had a weak cleanup plan. And
19 the cleanup plan is so inadequate that I
20 believe it will leave the river
21 contaminated forever. I don't think the
22 river will have any hope to recover. So I
23 think it needs to be a much stronger
24 cleanup plan.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
39
1 I also want to remind that we
2 have the highest levels in ducks and fish,
3 definitely in the United States, and
4 possibly in the world, and it begs to
5 clean up the river for all the critters in
6 the river. I posed a question to the
7 state one time that we have those kind of
8 levels in the fish, and they said, Tim,
9 it's okay, because we have stable
10 populations. So I said, so we have stable
11 populations of contaminated fish and
12 ducks. And the first duck that was tested
13 had 3,700 parts per million, an astounding
14 level of PCBs. And, of course, there was
15 an ecological risk assessment that was
16 done by EPA and GE. I think it lasted
17 about five years and cost the taxpayers
18 probably millions and millions of dollars.
19 This was back about 2003. And now it's
20 being ignored. So all of that taxpayer
21 money goes down the tubes. And that
22 report was written to make sure that we
23 take care of the critters in the river.
24 As far as capping goes, I
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
40
1 would like to go back to Allendale School
2 in Pittsfield. Allendale School was
3 capped back around 1993. And the people
4 who live in the neighborhood asked that it
5 be monitored. And every two years they
6 tested the capping. And this is on land;
7 it's not a water-based cap. And every two
8 years it failed. And they had to go back
9 and fix it, find the spots that were
10 popping up contaminated. Eventually they
11 excavated the school, because the cap did
12 not work. So now we're going to take the
13 cap into the river where there's
14 hurricanes and different things that
15 affect the river, and we expect it to
16 withstand those kind of pressures. So
17 caps, at least at Allendale School, proved
18 that they just don't work.
19 This thing about no landfill
20 in Berkshire County, the EPA allowed GE to
21 landfill next to Allendale School. And I
22 believe that what we know from rumors in
23 the neighborhood that GE is buying land up
24 around the county and getting purchase
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
41
1 agreements in place. I don't think they
2 would be doing that if they think that
3 they are going to have to, you know, truck
4 it out of the neighborhood. And the other
5 thing is that landfilling next to
6 Allendale School is precedence. So I
7 think they could go before a judge and
8 say, hey, wait a minute, we have done it
9 before; you should allow us to do it
10 again.
11 Adaptive management should be
12 on the table; it should be thorough; it
13 should be slow; it should be incorporated
14 community into that. Not just be
15 something that is decided in Boston. I
16 think that is important.
17 And my last point is that
18 there is a bigger reason than cleaning the
19 PCBs in the Housatonic River, is that
20 everything on the earth is contaminated
21 with PCBs, every animal, every human
22 being. The polar beers are getting sick,
23 orcas are getting sick, beluga whales are
24 getting sick, animals on the Housatonic
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
42
1 River are getting sick according to the
2 ecological risk assessment. And I think
3 we need to clean up because of that.
4 Thank you.
5 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
6 MR. FRIEDMAN: Good evening.
7 My name is Benno Friedman, B-E-N-N-O,
8 F-R-I-E-D-M-A-N. I'm with the Housatonic
9 River Initiative. I'm a current board
10 member.
11 I don't think it makes any
12 sense nor is it going to convince anyone
13 if I cite more numbers and facts. The
14 numbers and facts, in fact, are very well
15 known, if not discovered by EPA in the
16 surveys and studies that they have
17 conducted. And what we have here is a
18 situation where science is being trumped
19 by politics. Science is being trumped by
20 power. Science is being trumped by forces
21 that are outside of the vision of most of
22 the rest of us. And certainly out of
23 sight of the media. And it should not be
24 any surprise that that is the way that
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
43
1 things work, because we're looking at the
2 issue of global warming, and in this
3 country, we seem to have a very strong
4 precedence right now for ignoring science.
5 If you went to buy a house and
6 the house looked beautiful, and its walls
7 were freshly painted, and the carpets were
8 brand new, and the lawns appeared to be
9 healthy, would you buy the house if you
10 knew that you had to live in a house
11 filled with mold that was behind those
12 walls that was waiting to come out and
13 impact your family at some point?
14 If you went and bought a car
15 and the car was freshly painted and it
16 sounded good, but somehow you found out
17 that it was all a fresh coat of paint over
18 a rusted and imperfect and a motor that
19 was about to fail, would you buy that car?
20 We're fortunate in that we
21 don't have to live in the river or the
22 river environment. We live nearby it, but
23 we don't have to live in it. So who is
24 going to advocate for the living creatures
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
44
1 that do live in it if not the
2 Environmental Protection Agency. They are
3 living in the rusted car, the broken down
4 car. They are living in the house filled
5 with mold. And you're proposing to put a
6 fresh coat of paint on the house and on
7 the car.
8 I'm glossing over it a little
9 bit. I understand there is work to be
10 done. But to say that you're leaving as
11 much as you have in written form, in
12 detailed written form within the proposed
13 remedy, is a crime against the very
14 environment that you're supposed to
15 protect. You have stated for many years
16 that the EPA has the ultimate
17 responsibility and authority to make the
18 decision unilaterally when it comes to
19 environmental groups and all the others
20 that have spent fifteen-some-odd years
21 sitting around the table listening to
22 information, giving their comments, and
23 what have you. Repeatedly we have been
24 told we have no authority.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
45
1 And yet some authority seems
2 to have occurred somewhere that has the
3 power over you. Because you had a very,
4 very strong cleanup a couple of years ago
5 being proposed. And suddenly your
6 authority seems substantially diminished,
7 and the cleanup seems substantially
8 diminished. And we were left wondering,
9 who among the powerful have gotten to you
10 and excised the science and marginalized
11 the decades of work that you, yourselves,
12 have put into those studies that speak
13 louder than any voices tonight, dictating
14 a required cleanup that goes far beyond
15 what you propose.
16 I ask you to, once again,
17 assert your authority and provide us with
18 a beacon of hope in being the
19 environmental protection authority that we
20 hoped you would be. Thank you very much.
21 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
22 MR. CIANFARINI: My name is
23 Charlie Cianfarini, you remember how to
24 spell it, same as Barbara. Citizens For
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
46
1 PCB Removal.
2 This plan was developed with
3 many considerations and compromises.
4 Unfortunately, these compromises leave 75
5 percent of the total contamination of this
6 toxic pollutant. The most intensive plan
7 of those originally considered and
8 proposed was to take longer than thirteen
9 years. The longest and most intensive
10 proposal should be the one included in
11 this permit.
12 At a public meeting in
13 Pittsfield, one city official said that
14 PCBs escaped into the river. For the
15 amount of contamination that is in the
16 river, this escape would be the equivalent
17 of all prisoners in the jails of this
18 country to be let out at once. These PCBs
19 did not escape from the GE plant, but were
20 dumped into the river.
21 We expect that GE will
22 litigate any permit. They might as well
23 fight a full cleanup rather than this
24 limited and inadequate proposal.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
47
1 We also need to remember that
2 any PCBs left in the river will eventually
3 become dislodged, recontaminate our
4 communities, and flow down to our friends
5 in Connecticut. It is a gift that I don't
6 want to give them. Thank you.
7 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
8 Others wish to go make a
9 statement for the record?
10 MR. KRONBERG: Carl Kronberg,
11 C-A-R-L, K-R-O-N-B-E-R-G. I live in
12 Lanesboro, Massachusetts. As a point of
13 reference, I have been a citizen activist
14 for over forty years, including working
15 for Citizens Action in New York, giving
16 technical support to Love Canal; working
17 on the New Horizons Committee to clean up
18 the Buffalo River after Bethlehem Steel
19 left Lackawanna, New York; on the
20 committee to suggest economic initiatives
21 in response to the closing of Louisiana
22 Pacific in Ketchikan, Alaska; a field
23 supervisor for the Department of
24 Commercial Fisheries of the Alaska
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
48
1 Department of Fish and Game; on the board
2 of Trout Unlimited in Cody, Wyoming and
3 the State of Wyoming Water Advisory Board;
4 past president of the Taconic chapter of
5 Trout Unlimited; and a member of the
6 committee that initiated the recognition
7 by the State of Massachusetts of the area
8 called the "Rest of the River" designation
9 as an area of critical environmental
10 concern.
11 First, I would like to
12 compliment the EPA staff for the thorough
13 job they did in the scientific studies of
14 the Housatonic River, that include the
15 ecology of the river, its history, and, of
16 course, its contaminants, in reference to
17 the PCBs dumped in the river and its
18 surrounding environment from 1930 to 1977
19 by GE. I went to most of the workshops
20 and the more recent series called a
21 charrettes.
22 Second, even though it was not
23 within the scope of the study, I would
24 like to suggest that further study be
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
49
1 undertaken to identify other contaminants
2 found in the river and the potential
3 health hazards to humans and the
4 environment.
5 Third, any cleanup should
6 clearly express the restoration that would
7 be part of the process and involve the
8 community.
9 Fourth, recently scientists
10 have come to recognize the positive role
11 rivers have on climate change. While not
12 in the scope of this issue of the
13 importance of the health of the rivers
14 under the Clean Water Act, it should be
15 addressed in plans for river cleanups in
16 any current and future river projects.
17 Fifth, my reaction to the
18 proposal for the Rest of the River is not
19 unexpected disappointment. The science
20 points to a need for a much more thorough
21 cleanup of the Housatonic River and the
22 adjacent environment. The scientific
23 analysis should have led to a more
24 thorough cleanup, but I believe it was
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
50
1 stymied by the efforts of GE to minimize
2 the cost of the cleanup and by its ability
3 to influence the economic and political
4 culture of Pittsfield and the State of
5 Massachusetts.
6 It may be anecdotal, but
7 individuals have said in public meetings
8 and to me personally that they and their
9 families would not go near the Housatonic
10 River until it was cleaned up.
11 I guess my felling is that all
12 is not lost, because I think eventually
13 future generations will recognize the
14 value a clean river will provide to this
15 community both economically and as
16 recreational tourism. And they will take
17 pride in doing the right thing. Thank
18 you.
19 MR. BERKEL: Hi, good evening.
20 My name is Brian Berkel, B-E-R-K-E L. I
21 live on East New Lenox Road, and I can see
22 the river right from my front yard. I
23 can't see Russia from my back porch, but I
24 can see the river across the way.
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
51
1 My biggest concern here at
2 this point as a resident in the
3 neighborhood is just to be able to have a
4 better understanding so that I can be a
5 better participant in this conversation as
6 to what the logistics are going to be for
7 these trucks coming and going from the
8 neighborhood. I'm echoing what Mr. Cook
9 had said in that we just need to know.
10 And I would think that we should have that
11 information up front, so we can be a
12 better participant in the conversation.
13 And I think that you guys should owe it to
14 the stakeholders, the property owners, the
15 families who are going to be impacted most
16 over this five years or more. That is
17 all. Thank you.
18 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
19 MR. ALSOP: My name is Danny
20 Alsop, A-L-S-O-P. I live in Stockbridge,
21 about 200 yards from the river. And back
22 in 1989 I received an EPA award for
23 canoeing across Massachusetts for rivers,
24 river protection. And I have been
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
52
1 involved in river protection since then a
2 bit.
3 I just came back from Maine,
4 where I started over a period of time at
5 Bar Harbor and I ascended the Penobscot
6 River to Mt. Katahdin, which I climbed.
7 And I thought about the Housatonic the
8 whole way. And then I went across Maine.
9 I went up the west branch of the Penobscot
10 and down Mooshehead Lake and up Moose
11 River and eventually to Flagstaff Lake and
12 up the Dead River. And everywhere I went,
13 I saw a river. Most of the land that I
14 traveled through has been changed by man.
15 The landscape of Maine is the landscape of
16 old mills, old dams, old industries which
17 have left. Old agricultural and logging
18 practices which have peaked and failed and
19 which have changed the landscape,
20 releasing vast tons of soil from
21 mountainsides down into the river,
22 changing the river, creating wetlands,
23 where there were no wetlands, altering the
24 speed of water. And much of this has
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
53
1 happened in the last 150 years. I saw
2 change.
3 In my travels on the
4 Housatonic River, I mostly go upstream.
5 When I cross the state I had to go -- I
6 had to learn to go upstream. And this
7 gave me a different perception of the
8 river. When you start at the river, you
9 look down in salt water through the clear
10 water at the ground below you, below the
11 water, and what do you see? You see the
12 same pattern. You see the same pattern
13 that you see at the mouth of the Ipswich
14 River, the Connecticut River, the
15 Housatonic River, the Hudson River. It's
16 the same pattern. It's the pattern of
17 energy and water moving, okay.
18 So I'm hear to say that I
19 don't think, in my opinion, that you can
20 kill a river. You can alter it, and it
21 will self-correct. It will not do what
22 you want to do, but it will do what it
23 wants to do. It's only a matter of time.
24 Three hundred yards from my
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
54
1 house in Stockbridge there is the outside
2 bend of the river, where the soil gets
3 picked up and carried downstream and
4 redeposited on the inside of the next
5 curve. On the inside of that bend, just
6 specifically at eye level, were a series
7 of holes in the bank, bank swallows, part
8 of our natural balance between the bugs
9 and everything else. Two pulses of water
10 in the last year took the first hatch of
11 these birds and swept them away. The
12 birds came back and drilled the holes
13 again and then they got wiped out again.
14 And now those birds are gone. But they
15 have gone somewhere else. They follow the
16 river. And so do the forms we know as
17 river move, and so do the species of trees
18 and plants and fish and animals move. So
19 I say, let's remember, no matter what we
20 do, we cannot kill the river. The river
21 will keep doing what it's going to do. My
22 advice is work with that. Don't get stuck
23 with a fixed idea of what river is.
24 Recognize that it is alive. That is the
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
55
1 best thing I can say.
2 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
3 Others wishing to make a
4 comment?
5 MR. deFUR: You said we might
6 have. Peter deFur again.
7 Three points that not have
8 been talked about at all. Number 1 is,
9 there is a performance standard for fish
10 tissue concentrations of PCBs. In fifteen
11 years, they need to reach -- be low as 1.5
12 milligrams per kilogram. But 1.5
13 milligrams per kilogram is manyfold in
14 excess of the recommendations that EPA has
15 for PCBs in fish tissue, for human
16 consumption. In fact, states up and down
17 the East Coast have one of two standards.
18 And that is not in parts per million, it's
19 milligrams per kilograms. But it's in the
20 parts per billion. And they tend to be
21 either 5 parts per billion or 50 parts per
22 billion. And 1.5 milligrams per kilogram
23 would be 1,500 parts per billion. That
24 number doesn't protect human health at
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
56
1 fish consumption rate, which is considered
2 to be anything more than just minimum. It
3 also won't protect for anybody who already
4 has PCBs in their body.
5 The other point I want to
6 raise that has not been mentioned except
7 in the very vaguest of terms is
8 Connecticut. Nothing is being done in
9 Connecticut. I have raised this point for
10 over ten years here, that EPA does not
11 have enough data to write off the State of
12 Connecticut. They need to have insisted
13 on further sampling and at a minimum, they
14 need to have sediment removed from behind
15 the dams in Connecticut. I hate to see my
16 home state, the waters I grew up swimming
17 in, remain polluted in such a way.
18 And the third point that has
19 not been made at all is that this plan
20 would offer probably the most modest PCB
21 remediation of any major contaminated site
22 in the nation. I have been doing this for
23 over twenty years and I have not
24 encountered a PCB-contaminated site of
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
57
1 this magnitude that has received a
2 proposed cleanup this minimal. It really
3 does stand out. In twenty years of
4 experience across the nation from Seattle
5 to Massachusetts to the Gulf Coast, it's
6 the least. And I don't think it meets EPA
7 standards and I don't think it's up to the
8 quality of what the National Remedy Review
9 Board would have expected out of this
10 region. Thank you.
11 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
12 MS. BARZOTTINI: I don't know
13 how to follow all these eloquent speakers.
14 My name is Thelma Barzottini, that's
15 B-A-R-Z-O-T-T-I-N-I. I live in
16 Pittsfield, Massachusetts.
17 I have just said it all
18 before. I just want to thank all the
19 eloquent speakers and the EPA for coming.
20 I just go on record, I don't believe in
21 capping. You can't leave it there. You
22 have got to think about the health to the
23 people and the habitats of the river. And
24 I always say, I know Pittsfield had a
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
58
1 Consent Decree, but I'm quite happy with
2 what happened there. I hope that the Rest
3 of the River, they could set up some pilot
4 programs, it would go for the new
5 technology that is out there.
6 I really don't know what else
7 to say. I guess I have said it over and
8 over. I just -- the Rest of the River, I
9 don't approve of, I never approved of
10 capping at all. I don't think it survives
11 properly, and if you do it in the river
12 with the weather conditions and so forth.
13 And as I say, everybody before me more or
14 less said what I would have said. And I
15 thank you.
16 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
17 MS. MILLER: My name is Claire
18 Miller. I'm the Massachusetts State
19 Director of Toxics Action Center. We have
20 offices in Boston and Amherst. We are a
21 public health and environmental nonprofit
22 and we were founded in the '80s after the
23 Woburn cancer cluster.
24 I want to echo by also saying
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
59
1 that it's hard to follow all of these
2 really eloquent speeches. And I have not
3 had a full chance to dig my way through
4 the permit, so I'll be sending more
5 thorough comments before the end of the
6 comment period.
7 Sitting here tonight though,
8 listening to other folks speak from the
9 heart about how they feel about this, I
10 can't help but remember how I came to be a
11 toxics community organizer, which is not
12 the most straightforward life path. But
13 when I look back on my life, I can't help
14 but notice that I grew up ten miles from
15 Pilgrim Nuclear Power Plant, and it's very
16 clear to me that even at a very young age
17 I knew it was there and had some kind of
18 understanding that it could completely
19 destroy my community and my neighborhood
20 and my family. And I don't think there is
21 any better memory that crystallizes what I
22 mean then to share with you when I was
23 about nine-years old. I heard the
24 lighthouse fog horn, but I thought it was
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
60
1 the siren for nuclear meltdown and woke my
2 parents up, convinced that we had to
3 evacuate. And that's a really strange
4 memory, it's a really strange knowledge
5 for a child to have.
6 And I'm not from the
7 Berkshires, I don't have that kind of
8 connection to the Housatonic River, but I
9 can imagine that families and children
10 have that same kind of knowledge and fear
11 about being contaminated.
12 And so I would urge you all,
13 as you listen to all of these stories and
14 hear the comments, to be as aggressive as
15 possible, remove as many PCBs as possible,
16 because all, you know, all types of
17 containments, you know, eventually fail.
18 And so we need to be as aggressive as we
19 can the first time around, while we still
20 have as many people as possible involved
21 in the process.
22 And you know at the end of the
23 day, Toxics Actions and I believe that we
24 all have the right to breathe clean air,
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
61
1 drink clean water, and live in healthy
2 communities. And so doing the best
3 possible, removing more than just 25
4 percent, I think, is a major piece of
5 that. Thank you.
6 MR. CIANCIARULO: Thank you.
7 Any others wishing to make a
8 statement before I close the hearing?
9 Hearing none.
10 Thank you all for coming this
11 evening and for your interest in this
12 Draft Permit. We do have extra copies of
13 the Draft Permit and the Basis available
14 outside the door. In particular, Pages 42
15 and 43 provide locations where you can
16 review development documents and how to
17 provide EPA with written comment.
18 And as we mentioned earlier
19 the public comment period closes on
20 October 27, 2014.
21 This closes our public
22 hearing. Thank you.
23 (Hearing adjourned)
24
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
------------------------
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
62
COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS
I, RAYMOND F. CATUOGNO, JR., Notary Public
Court Reporter do hereby certify that the
foregoing testimony is true and accurate, to the
best of my knowledge and belief.
WITNESS MY HAND September 29, 2014.
C?~~ ------------------------
Raymond F. Catuogno, Jr.
Notary Public
My Commission expires:
February 10, 2021
Springfield 413.732.1157
REAL TIME COURT REPORTING schedule@realtimereporting.net
Worcester 508.767.1157
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
63
Aabandoning 33:3abatement 34:23ability 50:2able 31:20 32:5
51:3abnormal 9:10abutters 34:11access 18:12 28:15
29:7 30:20 31:23accounting 35:24accumulate 8:16,16accurate 62:13accurately 25:11acquired 12:18act 3:12 14:5 49:14acting 32:20action 3:15,18 4:16
33:6,7 47:1558:19
actions 18:19 60:23active 24:2activist 47:13actual 24:5adaptive 16:9 17:22
18:16 20:3 34:741:11
addition 6:7additional 14:20
17:20 18:8 27:6address 13:24
15:13 16:7,20addressed 13:10
49:15addresses 34:10addressing 3:13
33:1adjacent 49:22adjourned 61:23administrative 4:13advanced 10:21advantage 25:21adverse 9:22advice 54:22advisory 48:3advocate 36:23
43:24advocated 33:11,15advocating 33:20
35:6affect 16:21 40:15affiliation 6:17age 59:16agency 1:3 44:2agencys 26:13aggressive 60:14,18ago 38:10 45:4agreements 41:1agricultural 52:17aid 6:15aim 34:23air 27:24 28:5
60:24alaska 47:22,24alive 54:24allendale 27:19,20
40:1,2,17,21 41:6allow 41:9allowed 40:20allowing 20:13,16
21:24alsop 2:16 51:19,20
51:20alter 12:1 53:20altering 52:23alternative 25:5alternatives 30:13
30:22amherst 12:10
58:20amount 10:6 17:13
19:21 35:22 46:15amphibian 9:15analysis 4:11 13:13
49:23andersen 2:6 19:12
19:13,13anecdotal 50:6anew 9:12animal 41:21animals 16:3 41:24
54:18
annually 13:5anybody 30:12
32:14,16 56:3appealed 5:18appeared 43:8application 17:22applied 16:1applies 13:15appreciate 14:20
25:1,5 37:6approach 13:19
18:8appropriate 15:6
17:15approval 18:22approve 58:9approved 15:1 58:9area 12:17 13:2,15
13:16,20 16:1321:11 23:4,5 24:724:9,11,18 27:1935:11 48:7,9
areas 3:24 8:8 11:712:21 17:15 18:320:6,17 22:2323:1,2,13 25:427:3 28:16,1729:8 30:22 31:1631:19,22 35:5,1535:16
ascended 52:5asked 6:22 40:4assert 45:17assessment 39:15
42:2asset 33:23assistance 13:11
37:1assistant 7:21associated 8:8association 22:5associations 27:13astounding 39:13attention 12:5attractions 21:17attracts 13:5
attribute 17:2audubon 14:12
15:16 19:3audubons 14:10authorities 13:1authority 44:17,24
45:1,6,17,19available 15:13
61:13award 51:22aware 13:14
Bback 21:15,20
30:24 31:17 39:1940:1,3,8 50:2351:21 52:3 54:1259:13
backed 12:20balance 54:8balancing 14:5bang 36:16bank 18:4 30:18,18
31:19,19 54:7,7banks 11:13 17:3bar 52:5barbara 32:19
45:24barzottini 2:18
57:12,14,15based 4:12 35:3basically 8:2 23:22
28:9basis 4:18 8:1 9:24
16:5 18:5 37:1261:13
bcrpc 33:8beacon 45:18beat 33:5beautiful 43:6becky 14:8beers 41:22began 4:24begs 39:4behalf 12:3behavior 9:16beings 35:13
belief 62:14believe 33:21,24
36:3,13 37:1338:20 40:22 49:2457:20 60:23
beluga 41:23bend 54:2,5bends 31:16benefit 15:21benno 42:7,7berke 50:20berkel 2:15 50:19
50:20berkshire 14:10
33:6,9 34:2 37:2440:20
berkshires 60:7best 25:9 55:1 61:2
62:14bethlehem 47:18better 36:24 37:5
38:2 51:4,5,1259:21
beyond 45:14bigger 36:16 41:18biggest 51:1billion 55:20,21,22
55:23biological 9:7bird 9:15,16,17birds 9:18 54:11,12
54:14bit 44:9 52:2blood 21:3 27:21board 12:12,15
13:8 42:9 48:1,357:9
bob 3:2bodies 9:5body 56:4boston 3:4 41:15
58:20bothers 28:10bottom 18:4 22:18
37:15bought 43:14
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
64
branch 52:9branches 4:6brand 43:8breathe 60:24brian 50:20broader 15:19broken 44:3brought 34:1buck 36:16buffalo 47:18bugs 54:8bulk 11:3 36:14bullet 13:14bunkering 10:17buy 43:5,9,19buying 40:23
Cc 32:12call 20:2called 20:10 26:22
48:8,20calls 16:13 18:20
19:3canal 47:16cancer 21:2 34:19
34:21 58:23canoe 15:17canoeing 51:23cant 27:12 38:2
50:23 57:21 59:1059:13
cap 37:19 38:1 40:740:11,13
capital 7:19capped 40:3capping 23:21,22
24:4 37:13,1439:24 40:6 57:2158:10
caps 35:5 37:14,1537:16 38:4 40:17
car 43:14,15,1944:3,4,7
carcinogen 8:24care 12:18 15:6
39:23
carl 47:10,11carpets 43:7carried 54:3case 7:10cases 11:7 33:13catastrophic 17:12
18:2catuogno 1:24
62:11,18causality 27:12cause 11:23 26:5causes 27:15,15causing 9:7center 58:19centrally 11:6ceremony 37:23certain 4:11 31:9certainly 42:22certify 62:12chance 59:3change 17:10 28:2
49:11 53:2changed 52:14,19changes 10:9changing 52:22channel 10:6,7chapter 48:4charlie 45:23charrettes 48:21chemical 32:14chemicals 17:19child 60:5children 9:10 60:9chlorinated 32:16cianciarulo 2:2 3:1
3:2 12:6 14:7 22:226:18 32:10 38:742:5 45:21 47:751:18 55:2 57:1158:16 61:6
cianfarin 32:19cianfarini 2:10,13
32:18,19 45:22,23cite 42:13citizen 47:13citizens 32:21 36:19
45:24 47:15city 46:13claire 58:17clean 29:5 39:5
42:3 47:17 49:1450:14 60:24 61:1
cleaned 19:23 21:523:15 50:10
cleaner 28:20cleaning 41:18cleanup 5:19 14:14
14:23 15:10,2416:11 17:16 18:719:15 21:11,13,2227:1,3 28:1433:19 36:14 38:438:13,13,18,19,2445:4,7,14 46:2349:5,21,24 50:257:2
cleanups 49:15clear 16:19 53:9
59:16clearly 49:6climate 17:9 49:11climbed 52:6close 7:12,12 35:1
61:8closely 14:12closes 61:19,21closing 11:11 47:21closure 5:2cluster 58:23coast 55:17 57:5coat 43:17 44:6cody 48:2colleagues 34:15combine 9:23come 3:10 6:12
9:12 21:15,2027:14 30:15 43:1249:10
comes 44:18comfortable 30:4coming 7:17 10:15
51:7 57:19 61:10
comment 4:23 5:3,56:9 7:2,13,1414:19,21 19:122:20 28:13 32:637:7,7,8 55:4 59:661:17,19
comments 5:4 6:3,56:7,8,21,23 7:1,57:8,9,24 12:314:15,19 16:819:11 22:8 37:3,944:22 59:5 60:14
commercial 47:24commission 33:10
62:20committee 47:17,20
48:6common 16:2commonwealth
62:1communities 19:6
47:4 61:2community 9:2,5
18:14 21:2 32:333:22,23 41:1449:8 50:15 59:1159:19
company 3:7complete 3:22 15:1
38:13completed 6:23completely 59:18completion 5:12complex 32:24compliment 30:11
48:12comprehensive
18:7compromises 46:3
46:4concentrations 9:4
55:10concepts 7:20 16:8conceptual 16:10
18:8concern 23:20 24:7
25:2 48:10 51:1concerned 26:24
27:2 32:8concerning 5:22concerns 22:23
25:23 34:11,14conclusion 21:21conditions 58:12conducted 42:17confidence 28:9confluence 4:5connecticut 4:8,22
47:5 53:14 56:8,956:12,15
connection 60:8consent 3:21 58:1consequences 10:3conservation 3:12
12:9 15:19consider 5:4considerations 46:3considered 24:8,14
24:17 46:7 56:1considering 19:10constitute 18:6consultant 7:19consumption 55:16
56:1container 29:9containments 60:17contains 16:1contaminants
48:16 49:1contaminated 8:6
8:11 13:16,2020:6 23:1,6,7,8,1524:6 25:3,1838:21 39:11 40:1041:20 56:21 60:11
contamination 3:2413:9,17 15:4 35:335:24 46:5,15
context 17:18continue 8:13,14,15
11:19,20continued 9:1
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
65
25:14control 18:18,18conversation 51:5
51:12convince 42:12convinced 60:2cook 2:8 26:19,20
51:8cool 28:22coordinators 26:21copied 13:19copies 61:12core 20:6,17 23:1
31:16,19 35:4,1535:16
corporations 21:10corrective 3:15,17
3:20 38:11,12cost 26:2 36:6,13
39:17 50:2country 43:3 46:18county 33:9 34:2
37:24 40:20,24couple 45:4course 23:17 28:14
39:14 48:16court 62:12crafted 13:23creating 52:22creatures 43:24crime 44:13critical 48:9critically 16:20critters 39:5,23cross 53:5crustaceans 9:20crystallizes 59:21cubic 29:3 30:24
31:1culture 50:4culturing 11:15current 10:8 17:3
22:11 42:9 49:16curve 54:5cushing 2:5 14:8,9
14:9
cynical 28:12
Ddam 18:16dams 25:1 52:16
56:15dangers 8:22danny 51:19data 5:22 56:11date 36:2day 60:23days 5:15de 7:18dead 52:12decade 15:1decades 14:23
33:12,13 45:11dechlorination 11:9decided 41:15decision 5:9,12 6:2
44:18decree 3:21 5:7
58:1decrees 4:9defer 6:24definitely 39:3defur 2:3,17 7:16
7:17 55:5,6degree 23:21deliberation 15:7delivered 31:9dennis 22:3 33:8department 27:18
47:23 48:1depot 29:21depressed 9:8designation 48:8despite 16:17destroy 59:19destruction 35:6detail 22:20detailed 14:18
44:12details 19:1detectable 27:23determined 8:23
27:19
detoxification 11:9developed 46:2developing 14:18development 9:10
13:18 17:23 61:16dewatered 29:9dictating 45:13didnt 26:3difference 27:13
28:19 36:8,10different 3:23 40:14
53:7difficult 14:4 32:24dig 26:3 59:3digging 28:3 31:21diminished 45:6,8directly 15:17director 14:10
32:21 58:19disabilities 9:9disappointing
31:24disappointment
49:19discouraged 32:9discovered 42:15discussed 31:10discussions 25:7disease 21:3 34:22
34:24dislodged 47:3dispute 5:11,13,14disrupt 18:3disrupted 17:4disrupting 21:16disturbances 26:8disturbing 29:17,17division 12:14
13:12documents 16:18
17:2 18:21 61:16doesnt 35:13 55:24doing 32:1 41:2
50:17 54:21 56:2261:2
dollars 39:18
donors 12:19dont 7:17 20:7 22:6
29:3 32:4 37:1338:21 40:18 41:142:11 43:21,2347:5 53:19 54:2257:6,7,12,20 58:658:9,10 59:2060:7
door 61:14doubt 35:20doubts 24:1downstream 19:6
54:3draft 1:7,16 3:5
4:17,23 5:22 7:249:24 16:6 18:6,1018:20 22:9 61:1261:13
drilled 54:12drink 61:1drive 26:20duck 39:12ducks 39:2,12dump 20:12dumped 46:20
48:17dumps 20:17,22
33:18 34:5dust 25:12dynamic 15:14 17:1
17:6 24:2
Eearlier 61:18earth 41:20east 1:19 4:5 50:21
55:17echo 34:14 58:24echoing 51:8ecological 8:4,19
17:24 39:15 42:2ecologically 17:14ecology 10:20 48:15economic 47:20
50:3economically 50:15
ecosystem 12:115:21
ecosystems 16:12effect 20:15effected 18:23 19:5effective 23:18effectiveness 16:22effects 9:22 11:24
11:24efforts 50:1either 6:13 7:10
22:17,18 55:21electric 3:7 18:21
21:9 38:15elevated 9:4 27:22elimination 11:10eloquent 57:13,19
59:2emeritus 12:8encountered 56:24encourage 7:10encouraged 16:4endangered 16:16
23:2,12 35:17,18energy 53:17engaged 14:13ensure 6:4,19entire 9:5 12:1
35:21environment 15:4
26:9,14 31:543:22 44:14 48:1849:4,22
environmental 1:37:20 8:4 12:926:13 33:6,7 44:244:19 45:19 48:958:21
epa 3:3,14 4:15,205:3,8,15,23 6:1,26:4,9 7:22 13:1113:23 18:22 19:319:15 23:11 28:930:17 32:23 38:1038:17 39:16 40:2042:15 44:16 48:12
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
66
51:22 55:14 56:1057:6,19 61:17
epas 5:9,11,15epaselected 5:19equilibrium 17:6equipment 18:13
29:10 31:18equivalent 46:16eric 32:11,12eroding 17:3escape 46:16,19escaped 46:14especially 21:24
24:2 37:15essential 25:14evacuate 60:3evening 3:2 7:3
19:12 26:19 42:650:19 61:11
events 17:11 18:3eventually 40:10
47:2 50:12 52:1160:17
everybody 58:13everybodys 36:16example 19:19
37:20 38:2excavate 30:18
31:18excavated 40:11excess 11:19,21
55:14excised 45:10executive 32:21exists 13:17expect 40:15 46:21expectation 12:20expected 57:9experience 15:10
36:21 57:4expires 62:20explicitly 16:6expose 35:12exposed 9:6 11:19
11:21,23 35:19express 6:20 49:6
extended 14:1937:7
extensive 8:1813:11 15:3 17:21
extra 61:12extract 11:13extreme 17:11 18:2eye 54:6
Ff 1:24 62:11,18facility 3:7,17fact 17:7 18:6 33:16
33:22 37:21 42:1455:16
factor 36:7factors 16:21facts 42:13,14fail 37:14,15 43:19
60:17failed 38:1 40:8
52:18fall 16:18falls 20:4families 21:3 26:23
50:9 51:15 60:9family 43:13 59:20fanfare 37:23far 21:23 22:11,16
32:8 39:24 45:14favor 19:14 21:21
24:23,24fear 60:10features 16:15february 62:21federal 3:12federer 2:9 32:11
32:12,12feel 22:10 23:22
24:3 25:17 26:6,732:5 59:9
felling 50:11fetus 9:11field 13:12 47:22fifteen 10:22 55:10fifteensomeodd
44:20
fifth 49:17fifty 20:11fight 46:23figure 25:8filed 4:13fill 29:5filled 43:11 44:4final 5:9,12,16,17
6:1 17:24finalized 19:2find 40:9finish 7:4finished 37:22first 15:24 17:16
19:22 39:12 48:1154:10 60:19
fish 9:14 39:2,8,1148:1 54:18 55:955:15 56:1
fisheries 12:12,1447:24
five 6:21 7:7 19:2028:5 31:13 38:1039:17 51:16
fiveyear 19:24fix 10:16 40:9fixed 10:6,7 54:23flagstaff 52:11flexibility 15:11flood 18:2floodplain 18:4
22:18 25:19 26:4floodplains 8:7
17:14 27:24 28:18floods 17:12floor 30:15flow 17:4 47:4flowing 4:7fog 59:24folks 59:8follow 54:15 57:13
59:1following 5:2 14:15follows 5:8forces 42:20foregoing 62:13
foreseeable 8:9forever 38:21form 13:12 35:11
44:11,12formal 4:23 18:23formally 5:24forms 54:16forth 58:12fortunate 23:3
43:20forty 47:14found 36:1,1 43:16
49:2founded 58:22four 29:20fourth 49:9frankly 34:18 36:8fred 4:7fresh 43:17 44:6freshly 43:7,15friedman 2:12 42:6
42:7,8friends 47:4front 50:22 51:11full 14:6 36:5 46:23
59:3fund 26:12funds 12:19fur 7:19further 18:10,19
19:4 37:9 48:2456:13
future 8:10 17:7,2021:14 26:10 35:1335:22 49:16 50:13
Ggame 48:1garner 4:7ge 3:14,21 4:10,14
5:8,10,13,15,1819:3 38:10 39:1640:20,23 46:19,2148:19 50:1
general 3:6 18:2021:9 37:8 38:15
generations 26:10
50:13ges 3:17 36:17getting 38:6 40:24
41:22,23,24 42:1gift 12:18 47:5give 7:4 47:6given 17:18giving 44:22 47:15global 43:2glossing 44:8go 21:23 22:11 36:4
36:18 40:1,8 41:747:8 50:9 53:4,5,657:20 58:4
goal 35:7goes 22:20 39:21,24
45:14going 10:4,10,12,14
10:17,18 11:1720:21 21:18 24:1125:6 28:1,2,14,1628:23 29:2,4,5,6,729:21,24 30:3,430:17,20,21 31:631:15,17,20,2240:12 41:3 42:1243:24 51:6,7,1554:21
good 3:1 19:12,1619:17 20:1 21:1822:16 23:24 26:1942:6 43:16 50:19
gotten 45:9grant 7:21gray 2:11 30:11
38:8,8great 10:5 28:23
35:16greater 10:1grew 56:16 59:14ground 53:10group 26:21 36:20groups 44:19guess 50:11 58:7guise 20:18gulf 57:5
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
67
guys 51:13
Hhabitat 16:2 20:20
23:1habitats 20:19 23:6
57:23halfbaked 21:13halflife 32:14hand 62:16handle 29:21happen 11:17 28:24
31:15happened 53:1 58:2happening 31:14happy 25:15 34:4
58:1harbor 52:5hard 10:16,16
33:11,16 59:1harder 30:12hardscape 10:6harm 26:5hasnt 32:7hatch 54:10hate 56:15haul 18:14hazardous 3:13,16hazards 49:3head 15:23heal 33:6health 8:3,19,23
13:9,24 18:1422:12,13 26:1527:18 49:3,1355:24 57:22 58:21
healthy 26:9 43:961:1
hear 31:6 53:1860:14
heard 27:5 59:23hearing 1:14 3:5,9
3:9 4:2 5:6,20 6:36:6,10 61:8,9,2261:23
hearings 28:13 31:7heart 59:9
heavily 32:15heavy 29:10held 1:17 4:20help 6:10 59:10,13heres 27:17hey 41:8hi 50:19high 1:18 23:21
24:8higher 16:14highest 20:9 39:2highly 13:3 20:24hill 33:19,19historic 17:4history 48:15hit 22:22holes 54:7,12home 36:20 56:16homeowner 37:1hope 38:22 45:18
58:2hoped 45:20hopefully 34:8hoping 25:13horizons 47:17horn 59:24hot 24:17hour 29:20housatonic 4:1,4
7:22 9:6 10:2212:17 14:4,5,1415:20 16:24 19:1522:5,6 33:7 38:941:19,24 42:848:14 49:21 50:952:7 53:4,15 60:8
house 43:5,6,9,1044:4,6 54:1
hri 12:3 33:5hudson 53:15huge 27:13 28:17
28:19 31:4human 8:19,24
22:13 26:14 35:1241:21 55:15,24
humans 11:18 26:6
49:3hundred 53:24hurricanes 40:14hva 22:19 33:8hydraulic 11:5
Iia 25:15idea 54:23identify 6:15 49:1ignored 39:20ignores 17:7ignoring 43:4ill 59:4im 3:3 7:19,23 12:8
12:13 14:9 26:1926:21 32:20 42:842:9 44:8 51:853:18 58:1,1860:6
imagine 60:9immune 9:8impact 27:1,2
28:17 31:4 32:733:21 35:16 43:13
impacted 15:1751:15
impacts 25:24imperative 9:24imperfect 43:18impermanent
10:18implemented 10:4
11:18 19:2importance 49:13important 15:8
16:21 19:1 41:16improved 15:12
34:1inadequate 8:2
38:19 46:24include 15:11 18:1
48:14included 34:8 46:10includes 4:14including 3:16 9:8
13:21 18:10 33:5
33:16 36:17 47:14incorporate 15:11incorporated 16:10
41:13incorporating
17:21 33:14increase 10:9 17:11incredibly 8:20indicates 9:2indicating 9:13individuals 50:7industries 52:16influence 37:4 50:3information 4:14
4:15,20 18:9 27:744:22 51:11
inherently 15:1417:1
initial 7:2initiated 48:6initiative 7:23 38:9
42:9initiatives 47:20input 19:4 31:7insects 9:19inside 54:4,5insidious 15:5insisted 56:12instability 17:3institutional 18:18integrity 16:22intended 5:9,11intense 17:10intensive 46:6,9interest 15:19 19:8
61:11interfere 9:14invasive 18:17invertebrates 9:19
11:22investigation 3:23
4:11 25:10,10invite 7:14invoke 5:14involve 31:22 49:7involved 52:1 60:20
ipswich 53:13irregularities 24:19issue 5:16 6:3 32:6
43:2 49:12issued 3:14 4:19issues 6:1 22:21
Jjails 46:17jeffrey 26:20job 26:13 48:13joseph 12:7jr 1:24 62:11,18judge 41:7june 4:19,21,22,24
Kkarns 33:10katahdin 52:6keep 54:21kent 4:22ketchikan 47:22key 14:17 16:7kill 53:20 54:20kilogram 55:12,13
55:22kilograms 55:19kind 30:2 34:10
39:7 40:16 59:1760:7,10
knew 38:18 43:1059:17
know 8:18 26:1528:1 29:13,1430:9,16,17,20,2131:8 32:5,14,1636:22,23 40:2241:3 51:9 54:1657:12,24 58:660:16,17,22
knowledge 60:4,1062:14
known 8:24 10:911:23 20:5 35:2342:15
knows 11:24kronberg 2:14
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
68
47:10,10,11
Ll 50:20lackawanna 47:19lake 37:22 38:1
52:10,11land 12:17 17:4
40:6,23 52:13landfill 20:10,11,12
20:24 40:19,21landfilling 41:5landfills 21:7 24:23landowner 12:16
15:17landowners 18:24
19:5landscape 17:9
52:15,15,19lanesboro 47:12large 11:3 18:3larger 3:20largest 12:16larson 2:4 12:7,8,8lasted 39:16law 3:12lawns 43:8leading 17:10league 33:7learn 8:21 15:9
53:6learning 9:9leave 20:5 34:21
35:11 38:20 46:457:21
leaves 22:14,16leaving 17:13 22:24
28:15 44:10led 49:23left 20:17,22 22:1
34:17 35:15,2245:8 47:2,1952:17
lenox 1:18,20 4:2130:19 50:21
level 8:12 20:927:22 39:14 54:6
levels 8:21 9:7,1311:20,21,23 16:1424:14 27:23 30:939:2,8
life 14:11 59:12,13lighthouse 59:24likelihood 17:12
30:8limit 6:20limited 9:18 46:24line 37:15listen 60:13listening 33:4 44:21
59:8literature 9:2litigate 46:22little 20:14,16,21
21:6 44:8live 7:18 9:20 19:14
26:20 31:12 32:2040:4 43:10,21,2243:23 44:1 47:1150:21 51:20 57:1561:1
living 43:24 44:3,4located 11:6 15:22
16:13 26:23locations 18:14
61:15logging 52:17logically 23:9logistics 51:6long 16:23 17:17longer 46:8longest 46:9longterm 26:8look 23:24 29:2
31:11 53:9 59:13looked 43:6looking 30:13 34:4
34:24 36:14 43:1lose 25:22lost 28:9 50:12lot 6:18 25:6 28:11louder 45:13louisiana 47:21
love 47:16low 8:12,21 9:13
55:11lower 33:21
Mmagnitude 57:1main 22:23,23
23:20 25:4maine 52:3,8,15maintaining 14:1maintenance 18:17major 56:21 61:4making 6:7man 52:14management 16:9
17:22 18:16 34:741:11
manyfold 10:2155:13
marginalized 45:10mass 8:5 10:1 13:21
14:10,12 15:1619:3
massachusetts 1:203:8 4:8 12:10,1213:4 38:14,1647:12 48:7 50:551:23 57:5,1658:18 62:1
material 18:13 29:829:21 30:1 31:1,137:17,18
matter 53:23 54:19meadows 15:18mean 59:22meander 10:14,14means 10:13measure 38:11,12media 42:23meeting 38:15,17
46:12meetings 50:7meets 57:6mega 33:1meltdown 60:1member 12:13
42:10 48:5members 9:3memorial 1:18memory 59:21 60:4mention 29:3mentioned 56:6
61:18methods 10:21 11:2
15:12,24 17:24microbes 11:22microphone 6:12microphones 7:15middle 1:18mike 27:14miles 4:9 19:22
59:14miller 2:19 58:17
58:18milligrams 55:12
55:13,19,22million 20:7,9,11
20:14,15,23 21:2424:8,10 36:9,939:13 55:18
millions 39:18,18mills 52:16mind 35:20minimal 57:2minimize 50:1minimum 56:2,13minor 37:24minute 9:20 41:8minutes 6:21 7:7modern 11:1,8modest 56:20modification 1:7,16
3:5 4:18,24 5:105:16,23 6:2
modified 3:18 10:1mold 43:11 44:5money 39:21monitored 40:5monitoring 25:14monster 30:1month 9:13monty 36:5
moose 52:10mooshehead 52:10morning 29:12mother 23:17motor 43:18mountainsides
52:21mouth 53:13move 17:8 54:17,18moved 29:9moves 37:18moving 37:20 53:17mt 52:6multiple 21:4
Nname 3:2 6:16 7:16
12:7 14:8 22:332:11,18 42:745:22 50:20 51:1957:14 58:17
named 30:14nate 33:10nation 13:7,17
56:22 57:4national 57:8natural 12:22 13:2
14:2 16:12 54:8nature 15:14 17:8
23:17near 17:6 34:17
50:9nearby 43:22need 11:14 22:6
25:6,18 26:6 42:347:1 49:20 51:955:11 56:12,1460:18
needs 18:1 38:23negative 25:24negotiations 25:7neighborhood 27:1
40:4,23 41:4 51:351:8 59:19
neighborhoods21:16 28:4 29:2331:12
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
69
neighbors 21:1931:5
never 58:9new 8:21 11:8 30:7
30:19 43:8 47:1547:17,19 50:2158:4
newest 10:24nineyears 59:23nonprofit 58:21normal 10:14notably 16:8notary 62:11,19notice 59:14notification 5:15notify 5:8nuclear 59:15 60:1number 55:8,24numbers 42:13,14numerous 16:2
Oobligate 5:18obvious 35:2obviously 35:4occur 10:10occurred 45:2occurs 11:16october 5:1 61:20offer 56:20offering 36:24office 3:3officer 3:9offices 58:20official 46:13officially 12:23oh 29:1okay 32:17 39:9
53:17old 52:16,16,16,17
59:23once 15:1 27:4,10
45:16 46:18ongoing 25:10onsite 24:23 33:17operation 18:16
30:2
opinion 53:19opportunity 5:11
6:19 7:2,4 15:918:23 19:4 22:825:20,21 26:17
oral 5:21,24orcas 41:23order 3:10organization 8:23organizations 33:5organizer 59:11originally 46:7ought 27:7,9outdoor 13:3outline 18:8outrageous 34:18outside 42:21 54:1
61:14overview 14:16owe 51:13owners 36:20 51:14
Ppacific 47:22page 2:1pages 1:1 61:14paint 43:17 44:6painted 43:7,15palomino 26:20parents 60:2park 4:7part 3:20 20:14
25:16 33:18 38:149:7 54:7
participant 51:5,12participated 28:8particular 61:14particularly 19:5parts 20:6,8,11,13
20:23 21:24 24:824:9 39:13 55:1855:20,21,21,23
party 21:8path 59:12pattern 53:12,12,16
53:16pcb 8:5 11:8 13:9
13:17 24:12 32:2136:19 46:1 56:20
pcbcontaminated9:3 56:24
pcbs 3:16 8:11,128:20,22,24 9:4,79:14 10:2 13:1613:22 14:14 17:1321:4 22:15,1723:23 26:5 27:2227:24 28:22 29:232:15 35:19 39:1441:19,21 46:14,1847:2 48:17 55:1055:15 56:4 60:15
peaked 52:18peer 9:1penobscot 52:5,9people 6:18 13:5
15:21 19:7 20:721:15 27:8,1435:14 36:6 40:357:23 60:20
percent 22:1424:15,16 34:16,1734:20,21,23 35:135:23 36:10,11,1136:13 46:5 61:4
percents 24:13perception 53:7perform 4:11 5:19performance 55:9period 4:23 5:3,5
5:13 6:9 7:1314:20 19:24 37:737:8 52:4 59:661:19
periods 28:13permanent 10:19permit 1:7,16 3:6
3:14,18,20 4:104:18,24 5:10,175:17,22 6:2 7:249:24 10:4 16:618:6,10,20 32:646:11,22 59:4
61:12,13perpetuity 8:10
12:22persistence 17:18persistent 15:5person 5:20 7:1personally 50:8perspective 14:17peter 7:16 55:6phase 17:16phased 19:16phases 15:10phasing 16:9picked 54:3piece 61:4pilgrim 59:15pilot 11:8 58:3pinpointed 11:5piping 11:5pittsfield 3:7,17,24
4:6 19:14,19,2320:1 23:14 24:1224:16 32:20 40:246:13 50:4 57:1657:24
pixie 25:12place 11:14 41:1placed 25:11places 29:12,14plan 11:17 13:21
14:6 16:11,1918:1,7,11,15,1518:16,17,18,18,1919:16,17 20:2,420:13,16 21:2222:9,16 24:2125:16 33:14 38:1338:14,18,19,2446:2,6 56:19
planning 14:13,2233:9
plans 15:8 17:1918:1 49:15
plant 11:12 46:1959:15
plants 11:13 16:3
16:16 54:18please 6:14 26:16pledge 12:20pockets 21:6point 11:11 41:17
43:13 47:12 51:256:5,9,18
points 14:17 18:1224:21 49:20 55:7
poison 8:13,1435:10,10
poisons 21:5polar 41:22political 32:2 50:3politics 42:19pollutant 46:6polluted 20:20
56:17pond 13:22pools 8:8 23:13popping 40:10population 27:23populations 39:10
39:11porch 50:23posed 39:6poses 13:9positive 24:21
49:10possible 14:2 60:15
60:15,20 61:3possibly 39:4postpermit 31:3,14potential 49:2power 42:20 45:3
59:15powerful 45:9ppms 35:4,4practical 10:8practices 52:18precedence 41:6
43:4precise 31:20predicts 17:5preliminary 14:16presentation 22:22
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
70
presented 13:22preserved 12:21president 48:4presiding 3:8pressures 40:16prevent 37:19previous 16:7 33:18pride 50:17primarily 22:24prime 37:20principles 17:23prisoners 46:17probably 20:7
38:10 39:18 56:20problem 8:12 25:12
30:24 33:2proceed 15:6,10process 14:13,23
26:1 28:8,10,1231:6 32:3 34:1236:23,24 49:760:21
processing 11:6professor 12:9programs 58:4progress 16:17project 16:9,13
19:19 37:22projected 14:24projects 49:16properly 58:11properties 36:22property 15:22
16:1 51:14proposal 4:17 22:11
22:14 46:10,2449:18
propose 45:15proposed 4:16
16:19 21:23 24:1034:16 36:15 44:1245:5 46:8 57:2
proposing 33:1744:5
protect 8:3 22:1226:14 44:15 55:24
56:3protection 1:3
16:14 26:13 44:245:19 51:24 52:1
proved 40:17proven 23:11,18provide 6:8,16 7:24
14:16 15:9 17:2019:4 22:8 45:1750:14 61:15,17
provided 5:6 13:1114:21
providing 16:19public 1:14 3:4
4:23 5:5 6:9 7:138:3 13:9,24 18:2427:18 31:7 46:1250:7 58:21 61:1961:21 62:11,19
pulses 54:9pump 29:2pumped 29:6purchase 12:19
40:24put 44:5 45:12putting 30:24
Qqualifies 26:12quality 57:8question 27:4 29:15
32:13 39:6quite 58:1
Rrail 29:18,20 30:1,2
30:5 33:21,2434:9
railroad 25:5railway 25:4rain 37:24raise 27:4 29:15
56:6raised 56:9rare 16:2 21:3 23:2
23:12 35:17rate 56:1
rationale 20:18raymond 1:24
62:11,18rcra 3:6,11 4:10
5:17reach 17:6 55:11reaction 49:17read 7:6realize 20:8 26:1really 21:4 32:3
37:19 57:2 58:659:2 60:3,4
reason 41:18received 5:4 6:5
51:22 57:1receptors 8:4recognition 48:6recognize 11:16
49:10 50:13 54:24recognized 12:24recognizes 13:8
16:11recommendations
55:14recontaminate
35:21 47:3record 4:13 6:17
7:9 12:3 36:1947:9 57:20
recorded 6:6recover 38:22recovery 3:12recreation 13:4recreational 12:23
14:3 19:8 50:16redeposited 54:4reference 47:13
48:16refined 17:23refuge 23:4regan 2:7 22:3,4,4regarding 3:5,15
25:23regimes 17:5region 3:3 8:10
10:23 57:10
regional 33:9regulated 20:24reissue 3:6,18,19
4:10 5:17related 25:24relatively 37:23releases 3:15releasing 52:20reliance 24:4remain 56:17remainder 6:24remedial 4:16 25:9remediate 19:22
25:20remediated 11:14remediation 3:23
10:16 11:2 14:2215:3,8 16:2317:21 22:9,1624:12,21 26:136:22 56:21
remedy 31:8,944:13 57:8
remember 45:2347:1 54:19 59:10
remind 39:1removal 11:3,4,5
13:22 24:5,2425:2 32:22 34:1636:19 46:1
remove 8:5 10:126:6 34:4,20,2060:15
removed 23:1425:18 29:4 31:256:14
removing 38:5 61:3repeatedly 44:23replaced 23:16 29:5report 27:9 39:22reporter 1:24 62:12represent 22:4reproduction 9:15
9:15,16required 3:21 4:10
13:18 18:9 45:14
research 8:19 9:1resident 51:2residents 13:4resolution 5:13,14resource 3:11resources 13:2
21:11respect 4:3respects 16:5 19:16responding 5:23response 6:3 18:2
18:19 47:21responses 9:8responsibility
44:17responsible 21:8responsibly 13:23
14:1rest 1:6,15 4:3,4,12
4:16 15:23 21:723:5 42:22 48:849:18 58:2,8
restoration 10:2010:24 11:16 15:2017:24 18:15 49:6
restore 23:12restoring 26:2result 8:9review 5:3 9:1
18:22,24 57:861:16
revised 17:20rich 13:1richest 21:9richmond 7:18rid 35:9 38:6right 21:14 22:21
24:22 26:16 28:637:3,4 43:4 50:1750:22 60:24
ripe 10:23 11:1riprap 10:17risk 13:10 39:15
42:2risks 13:24river 1:6,15 4:1,3,4
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
71
4:4,6,12,17 7:228:6,7,14,15 9:6,2110:7,7,23 14:1415:14,20,23 18:319:9,15 21:7 22:122:12,18 23:525:19 26:3,4,1126:22,24 27:2028:1,18 29:3,2330:18 31:16,1833:11 35:7 37:1838:9,20,22 39:5,639:23 40:13,1541:19 42:1,943:21,22 46:14,1646:20 47:2,1848:8,14,15,1749:2,15,16,18,2150:10,14,22,2451:21,24 52:1,652:11,12,13,21,2253:4,8,8,14,14,1553:15,20 54:2,1654:17,20,20,2357:23 58:3,8,1160:8
riverbed 24:3riverine 16:23rivers 10:13 17:7
49:11,13 51:23road 25:4 30:19
50:21roads 18:14 28:15
29:7,22 30:2031:23
robust 19:14 21:22role 49:10roughly 4:8rug 22:19 23:23rumors 40:22run 6:10russia 50:23rusted 43:18 44:3
Ssafe 24:9,14,15,18safety 18:15
salt 53:9sampling 18:10
56:13sanctuaries 14:11sanctuary 14:9
15:18sand 22:19 23:21
23:23saw 52:13 53:1saying 58:24says 27:11scale 11:3scenario 10:8schedule 18:11scheduled 5:1school 1:18 27:20
40:1,2,11,17,2141:6
science 15:12 42:1842:19,20 43:445:10 49:19
scientific 13:1327:6 48:13 49:22
scientists 49:9sclerosis 21:4scope 48:23 49:12seattle 57:4second 48:22section 14:3security 26:9sediment 8:6,16
24:24 56:14sediments 11:4
18:4see 24:5 25:15 32:4
34:6 35:8 50:2150:23,24 53:11,1153:12,13 56:15
seen 10:12segment 4:3segments 4:1selfcorrect 53:21sending 59:4sense 20:20 23:10
35:14 42:12sensitive 16:15
17:15 32:24sensitivity 16:12september 1:17
62:16sequencing 18:12series 48:20 54:6serious 23:24 26:5sessions 4:20set 6:13 58:3severe 10:10share 59:22shift 17:8short 16:18 17:16
20:5shortterm 26:7shovel 11:4show 27:12,12sick 41:22,23,24
42:1side 6:13sides 26:23sideways 32:2sight 42:23significant 17:13silver 13:14 37:22
38:1simply 10:7 13:19siren 60:1site 26:12 56:21,24sites 9:3 11:12
23:16sitting 44:21 59:7situ 30:10 34:8situation 27:11
34:19 42:18six 38:10sky 28:21slow 41:13smoothly 6:11socalled 24:14soil 9:18 24:6 25:3
52:20 54:2soils 9:21 25:18solid 3:13solution 13:15solve 25:12 30:23
songs 9:17sorts 11:21sound 29:22sounded 43:16speak 36:5 45:12
59:8speakers 2:1 57:13
57:19speaking 12:11special 31:16species 16:3 18:17
23:2,12,15,1635:17 54:17
specifically 54:6speeches 59:2speed 52:24spell 6:16 22:6
45:24spent 44:20spoke 33:8spoken 34:15spot 24:17spots 40:9stable 39:9,10staff 13:12 48:12stage 6:13staging 28:16 29:8
30:21 31:22stakeholders 19:7
51:14stand 57:3standard 20:10
27:8 55:9standards 27:5
34:2 55:17 57:7stands 24:22start 36:20 53:8started 38:14,17
52:4starts 29:11state 12:24 13:6
22:10 38:14,1639:7 48:3,7 50:453:5 56:11,1658:18
stated 18:9 44:15
statement 4:18 6:126:14 7:6,11 16:518:5 47:9 61:8
statements 5:21 6:1states 13:6 39:3
55:16stay 23:7steam 11:3steel 47:18stenographer 6:16step 7:15steps 5:8stewardship 7:20sticking 33:2stockbridge 51:20
54:1stockpiling 18:13stop 6:22stored 29:11stories 60:13storm 17:11 37:24straightforward
59:12strange 60:3,4street 1:19strong 38:13 43:3
45:4stronger 38:23stuck 54:22studies 9:12 13:13
42:16 45:12 48:13study 27:11 38:11
38:12 48:23,24stuff 28:5 30:8stymied 50:1subject 9:22submit 5:21 7:8,10
18:21 22:19 27:9submitted 4:14submitting 12:2
37:9substances 15:5substantially 45:6,7suck 28:21suddenly 45:5suggest 47:20 48:24
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
72
suggested 30:23summarize 7:8super 26:12supervised 12:15supervisor 47:23support 14:6 47:16supposed 31:21
44:14sure 29:16 39:22surprise 42:24surrounding 9:3
19:6 48:18surveys 42:16survives 58:10susan 25:11sustain 20:20sustaining 20:19swallows 54:7sweeping 23:23swept 54:11swimming 56:16system 8:7 10:2,11
17:5 24:3 33:2435:21
systems 8:20 9:915:15 16:24
Ttable 41:12 44:21taconic 48:4take 14:24 19:20
23:17 25:21 39:2340:12 46:8 50:16
taken 14:23talk 29:18 30:5,6,15talked 30:10 32:7
36:6 55:8talking 29:19 30:10taped 6:6taxed 29:24taxpayer 39:20taxpayers 39:17team 33:6technical 7:21
47:16techniques 10:24
11:8 30:7
technologies 20:3technology 25:8,9
58:5tell 29:15ten 10:22 56:10
59:14tend 55:20term 16:23 17:16
17:17terms 32:4 56:7test 24:1tested 39:12 40:6testimony 62:13tests 27:21thank 12:4,6 14:7
19:10 22:1,2,726:17,18 32:10,1732:22 33:2,3,1433:20 38:6,7 42:442:5 45:20,2147:6,7 50:1751:17,18 55:257:10,11,18 58:1558:16 61:5,6,1061:22
thats 35:24 57:1460:3
thelma 57:14theres 21:1 24:18
35:17 40:13thing 20:1 23:19
26:16 30:6 37:1240:19 41:5 50:1755:1
things 3:22 21:1727:9,17 28:1529:13 30:16 32:433:15 40:14 43:1
think 7:17 10:1819:17 21:22 22:623:18 24:19 27:728:11 30:12,16,1732:1 38:2,21,2339:16 41:1,2,7,1642:2,11 50:1251:10,13 53:19
57:6,7,22 58:1059:20 61:4
thinking 24:15third 49:5 56:18thirteen 28:3 46:8thirty 5:14thorough 41:12
48:12 49:20,2459:5
thought 52:7 59:24threat 26:7three 4:1 19:22
33:13 36:12 53:2455:7
tim 30:11 38:8 39:8time 6:22 7:3 12:4
13:12 14:1,2117:9 19:19,21,2424:2 25:22 39:752:4 53:23 60:19
times 3:19 36:12tissue 55:10,15today 6:7 30:9told 44:24tonight 3:4 4:2 5:24
6:18 7:11 12:1127:6 45:13 59:7
tons 52:20total 35:23 46:5tourism 50:16tourist 21:17tourists 21:19town 19:17toxic 8:20 15:5 20:9
20:12,16,22,2421:4,7 33:17 46:6
toxicity 17:18toxics 58:19 59:11
60:23transcribed 6:4transport 34:5,9,10transported 8:15traveled 52:14travels 53:3treat 34:8treated 30:8
treating 34:22 38:5trees 54:17trout 48:2,5truck 41:3truckloads 29:19trucks 29:20 51:7true 62:13trumped 42:18,19
42:20trying 25:8tsca 20:10,12tubes 39:21twenty 56:23 57:3two 25:3 33:12 40:5
40:7 54:9 55:17type 11:4types 60:16
Uultimate 44:16understand 25:23
44:9understanding 51:4
59:18undertaken 49:1unexpected 15:2
49:19unfortunate 15:2unfortunately
26:11 33:18 46:4unilaterally 44:18unique 13:1,18
23:4united 39:3university 12:10unlimited 48:2,5unstable 17:1upstream 53:4,6urge 60:12use 11:15 24:4
33:20 34:3,6uses 17:4 19:8
Vvacuum 28:20vaguest 56:7valerie 19:13
valid 25:23valley 22:5value 36:12 50:14valued 13:3values 12:23 14:3vast 52:20verbally 5:6vernal 8:7 23:13views 6:20virginia 7:18vision 42:21vitally 15:7 19:1voices 45:13
Wwait 21:12 41:8waiting 43:12walls 43:6,12want 11:11 26:15
35:8 39:1 47:653:22 56:5 57:1858:24
wants 53:23ward 26:22warming 43:2waste 3:13,16 20:12
20:17,22 33:17watch 26:22water 48:3 49:14
52:24 53:9,10,1153:17 54:9 61:1
waterbased 40:7waters 56:16way 31:9 35:9
42:24 50:24 52:856:17 59:3
weak 38:18weather 10:9,10
58:12weeks 37:21went 43:5,14 48:19
52:8,9,12west 4:5 52:9wetlands 12:18
52:22,23whales 41:23wild 14:10
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)
Rest of River Draft Permit Modification Public Hearing 9/23/2014
413.732.1157 schedule@realtimereporting.net 508.767.1157Springfield REAL TIME COURT REPORTING Worcester
73
wildlife 8:13,179:12 11:20 12:1212:15 15:18,2222:13 23:4 26:527:3 35:12
wiped 54:13wise 17:17wish 26:3 47:8wishing 7:14 55:3
61:7withstand 24:1
40:16witness 62:16woburn 58:23woke 60:1wondering 45:8wont 56:3woods 13:22work 7:21,23 16:20
18:11,12 19:18,2031:21 32:24 33:1238:4 40:12,1843:1 44:9 45:1154:22
worked 30:12working 47:14,16works 38:5,5,5,6workshops 48:19world 8:23 21:10
39:4worms 9:19worry 21:16worse 10:13worth 26:8write 56:11writing 5:5written 5:21,24 6:8
7:5,9,11 10:511:18 12:2 14:1822:20 37:7,939:22 44:11,1261:17
wyoming 48:2,3
X
Y
yard 29:4 30:2431:1 50:22
yards 51:21 53:24year 8:21,22 29:19
54:10years 10:15,22
14:15 19:20 28:328:5,8 30:1431:13 32:23 38:1039:17 40:5,844:15,20 45:446:9 47:14 51:1653:1 55:11 56:1056:23 57:3
york 47:15,19young 59:16youre 6:22 31:17,20
33:16 44:5,10,14
Z
000 29:11,11000 29:19
11 3:1 4:1 31:16 55:8
55:11,12,22,2310 3:10 4:10 24:13
29:19 62:21100 35:111 3:11 4:1112 2:4 3:12 4:12125 4:913 3:13 4:1314 2:5 3:14 4:1415 3:15 4:15150 53:116 3:16 4:1617 3:17 4:17173 1:118 3:18 4:18,2119 2:6 3:19 4:191930 48:18197 1:191977 48:181989 51:22
1991 3:141993 40:31994 3:19
22 3:2 4:2 24:1320 3:20 4:20200 51:212003 39:192014 1:17 4:19,21
4:22,24 5:2 61:2062:16
2021 62:2121 3:21 4:2122 2:7 3:22 4:2223 1:17 3:23 4:2324 3:24 4:22,2425 4:24 24:13 34:16
34:20,23 61:326 2:827 5:1 61:2029 62:16
33 2:2 3:3 4:3 39:1332 2:9,1038 2:11
44 3:4 4:4 26:22400 26:2242 2:12 61:1443 61:1545 2:1347 2:1449 20:6,13,22 21:24
24:9,15,16 35:4
55 3:5 4:5 55:11,12
55:21,2250 2:15 20:8,23
24:9 36:10,11,1255:21
500 55:2351 2:1655 2:17
57 2:1858 2:19
66 3:6 4:6 29:11613 36:8
77 2:3 3:7 4:7 29:11700 39:1371 33:1975 22:14 34:17,21
35:23 36:11 46:478 33:19
88 3:8 4:880s 58:22
99 3:9 4:9 26:20900andsomething
36:9
You created this PDF from an application that is not licensed to print to novaPDF printer (http://www.novapdf.com)