Building credibility is THE ticket to building a successful business

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW

Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

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Episode 117: Dan Schawbel

In this episode Travis interviews Dan Schawbel. Dan is a dynamic and successful entrepreneur

whose company has helped businesses and entrepreneurs alike in their marketing, branding,

and discovering today's trends in the market and their consumers. Apart from the coaching and

teaching engagements, Dan has written books and numerous research studies that assist

entrepreneurs drive the growth of their business.

Travis and Dan talks about various concepts that provide value to entrepreneurs. Dan's shares

his philosophy of nobody will invest in you unless you invest in yourself. He also states the

importance of perseverance and belief in your goal despite the rejections. They also point out

on concentrating on your strengths in the business rather than dwelling on the weaknesses. And

also letting entrepreneurs know the value of being the best for your target market rather than

trying to being everything to everyone. This and much more are what you can learn from this

episode of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show.

Building Credibility Is THE Ticket to Building A Successful Business

TRAVIS: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 117 of the Entrepreneur's

Radio Show, a production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, where each and every week I'm

going to connect you with rock star entrepreneurs that explain their journey to success including

their failures, and what's been the key principles to finding that high level of success as an

entrepreneur. So that you can see that successful entrepreneurs are really just everyday people

that stayed committed to taking constant focused action each and every day. Now, today I'm

going to introduce you to Dan Schawbel. Dan was named to Inc. Magazine 30 under 30 list in

2010, The Forbes Magazine 30 under 30 list in 2012, and Forbes top 20 social media

influencers list in 2013. BusinessWeek cite him as someone entrepreneurs should follow on

Twitter. He's been featured on over 1,300 media outlets such as wired magazine, the Today's

Show, Street Signs on NBC, the Nightly Business Report, and I could go on with the list of

accolades that he's accomplished. But I just want to make it clear to you that as always there's

going to be lots of great value for you on this episode.

Now before we get started I want to say thank you to Fishman Brad there on iTunes. Thanks

for the 5-star written review. His review said, "I first started listening to this podcast about a

month ago and I keep finding myself going back for more and more." Brad says that he's gotten

to the point where he's realized that he cannot do everything all the time. He also said that this

podcast has helped him find the courage to start asking for help and not be embarrassed about

the mistakes that he's made. He also recommended to not be afraid to ask for help. There's

always someone out there willing to guide you in the right direction. And then he says, "Please

keep the podcast going. They've helped me and I can guarantee thousands of others." Brad,

thanks for the great feedback. I'm super excited that they're giving you so much value and

http://rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com/




direction for your business. Keep it up my friend, that's exactly what these podcast were

designed for. So I love the fact that you're taking action based on the things that we're talking

about and the things that you're taking from each of the show. Now, if you have time and you

find value in the show I'd really appreciate it if you'd go and leave us a review and just tell us

how we're doing. And of course I'll recognize you on air and say thank you.

One last thing, you can take these podcast with you on the go, through iTunes, Android, or

Stitcher, just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com and click on the icon right there on the

menu bar for your iTunes, Android, or Stitcher and it will take you directly to the show. Now that

we've got all of that out of the way let's go ahead and get down to business. Welcome to the

show Dan.

DAN: Happy to be here, thanks for having me Travis.

TRAVIS: You bet. I'm excited to spend some time with you. And I'm curious, you're a young guy

and you've accomplished some pretty impressive stuff in the short amount of time that you've

been in business. Do you mind sharing that back-story?

DAN: Absolutely. Well, I've been working since I was 13, I had my first internship in high school

after being a camp counselor for 2 years. Then I had 7 more internships in college. In the first

few internships through my father's connections. And then all the other ones since then I've

come to earn on my own. And during that time I kind of learned how to market myself, I was

creating websites for hobbies, from middle school to high school creating websites like message

board for my friends, or James Bond hobby site. I was just learning on my own basically. And

watching two of closest friends at that time use Photoshop and do videos, and basically really

involve themselves in the media and I learned all of that through them. And then getting a job

after college was difficult for me because I didn't really learn how to network. So I had all these

internships, I had my own small business doing websites and graphic design for other small

businesses outside the Boston area. And I was just really clueless on how to get a job because

there's so much competition for marketing jobs back then and it's even more now.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: And so, I really clamped it down. I said what companies I'm going to work for? And I

narrowed it down to EMC Corporation which is a fourth generation technology company, and

then I went all-in. And that's kind of how I've always been. When I was choosing my college I

want to go to is Bentley. And even though I tried for other colleges I didn't really care about the

other colleges, so I didn't get in early in Bentley and I fought to get in. I did an interview on

campus, I wrote them a letter, I got straight A's on my last semester, I just did whatever it took to

get in. And I and internship in high school so that differentiated me. And then for college, to get

a job when I graduated, some leadership positions and organizations, my own business,





internships, straight A's, everything. And it still took me months to get a job when I graduated

so, I started 6 months before I graduated trying to get a job. And what I noticed during the

interview process for EMC, and I met 15 people for 3 different positions and I thought about one

job. And the last set of interviews for that job, they were looking at my resume and their eyes

stopped at Reebok because I had an internship with Reebok and a lot of smaller companies.

But they were familiar with Reebok, that stood out to them because Reebok was a brand they

were a familiar with. They were interested in that and that blended to my credibility. And in that

moment, that one moment changed my whole view of life, and the workplace, and getting

ahead, and careers, because brands open doors. You build your own brand in your career or

your business because you're aligned with something that people have heard of before.

Whether you get someone famous and you're board of a company, or you worked at a company

that you people are familiar with, branding is really the essential key to opening the doors for

your career. And so, I got the job from them, and then I started my first blog in end of 2006

called Driven to Succeed and I was posting several times a week. No one was reading it, I

wasn't really marketing it, it was just kind for fun and to get my ideas out there, really basic

ideas, like networking, and job hunt, and internships, and business. Then it wasn't until March

14, 2007 when I read Tom Peters' famous article The Brand Called You which was really is the

reason why Fast Company Magazine has taken off and now has 800,000 subscribers. It's

because Tom Peters wrote this massive article about The Brand Called You and how at the end

of the day success lies in your hands. And he said something as part of the article that really

transformed everything for me. He said the smartest workers of the company are able to create

their own unique position, give a unique value to the company.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: So that night I started a personal branded blog which you're probably familiar with at this

point. And then within 6 months I was blogging 12 times a week, I was networking, I was writing

articles for magazines, I was doing an online TV show, I held the Person Brand Awards. I was

doing the Six -- on top of 50 hours at EMC. So I was working over 100 hours a week. My key

philosophy was if I sacrifice all this time now it'll position me for future opportunities and I'll thank

myself later, checking out big time.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: And I was doing all this, I started my own magazine, I had Donald Trump on the first

issue, and it was just building, building, and building. And after 6 months, this was August 1st

2007, Fast Company profiled me, and that changed everything. So if you get profile back then

it's much more impact, means there's less competition for media, so any profile is going to get a

lot more eyes back then. And so Google invited me to speak at their headquarters, EMC got

wind of it, the Vice President there, I got called into her office, I was able to create the first social

media position and a Fortune 200 company back in 2007. Now, everyone has these types of

http://amzn.to/1taCHE5




positions at big companies, so many agencies and everything now. But I did this, and I really

followed what Tom Peters said, he's like, “Create your own unique position” and that's what I

did. And I became so valuable to the company I was the social media resource for the company

worldwide. So people in all the different divisions in different acquisitions they would contact me

to learn about how social media could impact their specific area. And so I went from someone

who came into work being like, "Oh, what do I have to do today?" To somebody who everyone

wants to try to prefer to ask, “How can we best utilize your skills to advance our department, our

business, our product, our services?” So that was really powerful. And that inspired me to go

through the hell of trying to get a book published. I got rejected by 70 agents and 2 publishers.

Got the book deal on my own in January 2008. And then I learned from one of my mentors,

David Meerman Scott that that the publisher's not going to do any of the marketing and selling

for me like it probably was 50 years ago. Now you're in the hot seat, you have to do everything,

you have to be the chief marketing officer of your own brand, of your own product. And so that's

what I did. And so, I made the book successful when it came out. Now that book is in 13

languages and sold tens of thousands of copies. It's 2 editions. And so, really we're trying that

one, and that created the demand and the credibility even at my young age, I was 25 when it

came out. I started writing when I was 23. And that launched the first area of my business, of

millennial branding was the one we weren't coaching, helping executives, authors,

entrepreneurs build their own brands using social network tools. Basically a lot of the things that

we're doing for myself and EMC. Because that's why EMC hired me for that position, to do what

I did for myself but for the company. So Facebook.com/emccorporation, with all those

components that I created back then, which is kind of cool to look at because now they have a

lot of fans and followers, etc. And so, from there I've kind of gone on a different path. So I spent

5 plus years on the personal branding component especially for the younger generation. And

then I swapped. And now I'm kind of building off of that. And I'm going from Me 2.0 which was

how to use the social networks to find employment and build your career, to promote yourself

which just came out in September, which is more about millennials in future workplace, and

going from your first day of work to management roles. And so I built the next phase in my

career for the past 2 to 3 years on research. So I've done 16 research studies, and I'm releasing

my 17th research study in September with a paperback edition of Promote Yourself, where I

examined millennials and then generation Z across 10 different countries and know what their

workplace preferences are. So that's going to be a landmark strategy because no one's done it

before, which is really exciting. It's taken me 8 months plus to kind of hand that out, get the

funding and do the research analysis. So one of the ways I battled my youth at a young age was

I would show secondary research. "You don't trust me, I'm young, well here's the research from

all these other sources." And now, it's not even the secondary resources, it's like I'm actually

doing all this research. So I'm trying to basically make myself bulletproof on topics that I really

care about and think that are important. And all my topics fall into one umbrella, and that is

employment.

TRAVIS: Right.

https://www.facebook.com/emccorporation




DAN: Because that's such a huge issue now. And that's why a lot of this stuff's taken off

because when my first book came out, the economic issues we had, we're not finding jobs. And

then the second book came out, still, people are trying to build themselves up through economic

collapse. So I'm trying to figure this all out for people, put all the pieces together. And how

people go, especially my generation go from college to CEO. So, if you think about it Me 2.0

was college your first job, promote yourself, first job to management and then the next book will

eventually be management to executive CEO level.

TRAVIS: Right. So let me go back a little bit. There's a lot to cover here. You said the pivot point

was whenever they noticed Reebok on your list there. Now, how did you know that they notice

that? Did they verbalize that to you or did you just pick up on a cue. Give me some insight on

that.

DAN: Sure. So if you think about it, this guy, his name was David, one of the people who were

interviewing me. His eyes were going down on this huge 2-page resume through all the

internships. And then he got to Reebok he stopped. And he said, "Oh, you worked with Reebok.

What was that like?" And what's interesting about this Travis is that I really didn't do that much

at Reebok. If you're an unpaid marketing intern at Reebok you're doing nothing, you get no

opportunities. All the works done by the managers, directors, etc., so I did almost nothing there

but the name is so strong that it helped so much. And I did so much more work at the smaller

companies where I get to do so many different things, and there's only like 6 people at some of

these smaller companies. So that brand carries that much weight. And so, one of the things that

I tell people, if they're not already starting a business, when they're in college and whatnot, is try

and work for a brand named company when you graduate. Because that brand will help you

throughout the rest of your life. If you look at my bio, it's very strategic. Almost every sentence

has at least one brand in it. Because again, if you don't know who I am, you definitely know who

Time-Warner is, the New York Times is, etc. So it kind of protects me in a way. It's kind of like a

shell around me where people can't poke at it and say, "Oh, who are you, or what do you know."

Because there's so many brands tied around me at this point that it's almost my protection.

TRAVIS: Yeah, it's credibility and positioning, right? And so, I know your audience is speaking

really to a different demographic than this show is. Everybody are entrepreneurs on this show.

Although there's lessons to learn in the way that you've done this, because the way you

positioned yourself is really part of the strategic ways that businesses position themselves. And

just like you said, when you don't have credibility, even creating a case study you have to site

believable, reliable, trusted resources so that-- Because everyone's constantly thinking as

they're listening to someone speak about a product, or a service, or an offering, whatever.

There's not much trust out there, right? So you want them to set that distrust aside and focus on

the message. And the only way you can do that if you don't have a strong presence in that

market is site credible resources, right? And so, you obviously already understood that. And one

of the underpinnings that I see going on here with you is you understand the value of earned




media over paid media because almost-- Now, it may have been a necessity thing in the very

beginning. Almost everything, the Forbes 30 Under 30, Inc. Magazine, I don't know what order

these things come to you in. One normally leads to another, to another, to another. But was it

your objective to go after earned media, and do you have any paid media? Kind of explain that

strategy to me.

DAN: Yeah, I've never done any paid media and I never understood PR, I never understood

any of this, I never thought I was a writer. Basically, this is just all stemmed from my love of the

topic. The importance I put on it especially from my generation. But everything I write supports

my generation, but can be used in leverage for everyone. And that's kind of why my books are

read by people of all generations. That's also the new way of thinking. And so, the way I've done

it is I fell into it in a sense where I started the blog and then I'm curious to see maybe if I can

write or get press or whatnot. So I started pitching, and pitching, and pitching. And then because

the first press I got from a Fast Company had such a huge impact on my career, I was kind of

seduced by it. And I'm still kind of am, I'm like, "Wow, if that one piece of press can completely

change my world in that big of a way, then what if I get more?

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: So a lot of this is that I was also really young. When I got this I'm like 23, 24, and I was

naturally curious about the impacts certain things I was doing would have on my life, my career,

people around me, and I still am. I'm still like, "Wow, if I'm on this podcast, what if this person

who's watching and then that turns out to be $10,000?"

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: Or what if they know someone, they recommend it. You just don't know the

circumstances. So when people, especially publishers are like, what do you do that actually

sells books? I always say everything. Because you just don't know if a podcast, an article, a TV

segment, or whatnot is going to result in something bigger, or bigger sales, or opportunity, you

don't know. So people who put all their eggs in one basket that's not a good strategy. But also

being specific at what you're trying to do. So my positioning I think is part of the reason why I

think my love for networking and understanding that is not about just do for me, do for me, do

for me, and I just give, and give, and give, and then ask for something in return. I think that's

really the core of what I've done because I used to be afraid of networking and I figured out that

if you help other people out before asking for it in return, that's part of the secret. So I think

that's one important secret, and I think the other one is positioning. Like you were saying before

where I'm not just trying to be everything to everyone. I'm taking an audience and I'm trying to

be the smartest, the best person on the topics that matters to that audience that I care about. So

personal brand no one else doing it back then, that to me was obvious. I was passionate about,

I outwork anyone. And so I positioned myself on there. And then the next one is millennials in




the workplace. Not a lot of competition there. I'm a millennial I was in the workplace so I can

relate to them. So, again, that's a good progression for me. So it's not like I'm randomly

choosing things to do. I'm choosing things that allow me to create a broader story. For instance,

the research I do with Micro--for promote yourself, that gives you a view of millennials and their

managers. The next study is Generation Z who's not on the workplace, and millennials who are

in the workplace, and trying to figure out those relationships. So it allows me to tie a bigger

story. It's like what do Gen Z feel about millennials and what do millennials feel about Gen x

and Boomers. And then connecting all that together to formulate different ideas and different

solutions for context. So my motto is coming up with ideas. So the ideas are the cornerstone of

everything I do. If I'm not thinking of new ideas I'm irrelevant, completely. So new ideas,

research to prove the ideas, PR and marketing campaigns to get the ideas out there. And then

consulting and speaking in order to work with companies that help themselves, those ideas and

problems at their company.

TRAVIS: As you're talking and as I'm looking-- I love to put pieces of the puzzle together and I

have a burning desire to understand why. And that's a big part of what's made me successful is

my curiosity. It's also what gets me trouble at times too. But it just is what it is. In observing you

and listening to everything, one thing that is becoming obvious to me and I think you already

know this. Although I'd be interested to know if you are completely aware of it. I think you have

figured out how to overcome fear because you said something that clues me into this suspicion,

is you said you say yes to everything. Now that's an intimidating thing to do, that's a scary thing

to do. You come on the show we have no script, and you have to know your stuff cold to be able

to talk with no script, and that really scares a lot of people. Imagine if we were doing this live on

a stage, and I know you've done things like that. So, are you aware that you've managed to

overcome a big element of fear that hold a lot of people back?

DAN: There's two good examples for you. The first one is public speaking. I was petrified when I

was a-- We had a sophomore speech in high school and I had to speak in front of 30

people about affirmative action, and I got sick the night before, I was petrified of it. And then I

just worked at it, and worked at it, and worked at it, and worked at it over the years. Again,

figure out the topics I really cared about, made it easier. And now I'm speaking over a thousand

people at once. So I think you can definitely overcome it. And the other thing is I do recognize

that no matter how successful you are, you're still going to have these huge obstacles. So for

me, it's about trying to get people to buy into what I'm trying to do. For instance my first book,

rejected by 70 agents and 2 publishers, I kept going. The second book, three and a half years,

fired 2 agents, hired 4 consultants, 3 book proposals, almost didn't get it, worked extremely hard

on a ridiculous marketing plan. They upgraded the book to hardcover. Again, I did the whole

campaign, book comes out on September 3rd of last year, sells thousands of copies, becomes

The New York Times most featured best-seller. And then 1 day later I'm in Times Square at my

huge book launch sponsored by -- 2 days later, I turned 30. So it's like this huge epic thing that

happened to me because I didn't give up and I really invested and I understand one principle




that is so key especially in publishing is nobody will invest in you unless you invest in yourself

first. And so that principle is so important especially in the arts. So music and any of that. You

have to do it for yourself first and really push through. And even today, So for this global study I

did, I pitched 150 companies and got rejected 149 times.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: So to go through that amount of rejection, rejection doesn't bother you anymore after that

point. And this has been my whole life too. No one needs to answer my emails back in 2006,

2007. But to go through 150 pitches, and only one saying yes. But that one yes is all that

matters. This is what I tell young people now when I coach them and then I mentor them, is who

cares, all you need is one yes because you can build so much from that one yes. One yes

changes everything for you, so it's worth the fight.

TRAVIS: Hey, I'm curious. One way I learned to deal-- you know the fight or flight natural thing

that your body does, right?

DAN: Yeah.

TRAVIS: "You go on live in 5, 4, 3--" and there's been a surge of energy the last 30 minutes

building up to it, right? And you're at a point to where you could get sick, like you were talking

about. And I've learned to program myself as when that comes on, instead of it being a negative

thing, I've taught myself to say, "Oh, good stuff's about to happen." I've kind of reprogram

myself. So it's not necessarily this fight or flight thing as much an excitement about what's going

to happen. And so I've learned to channel it. Have you done a little game like that with yourself?

DAN: If I'm going to pitch 150 companies, it has to be something I'm so convinced It's going to

be successful that I'm willing to put up with that amount of rejection. That's my secret. And

because I've done it before. I've gotten rejected of things that happened, so I know that it will

happen. And honestly, I try to do a huge national speaking tour and get the companies to

sponsor that. And that's a lot to pitch, some e-companies that didn't work. And to me I put a hold

on that one because you know what, I'm going to keep building, building credibility. And then I'm

going to go back to all those companies, and every 1 to 2 years just keep going, and going, and

going. And then hopefully someday they say yes, there's no guarantee that I'll-- what's the worst

that can happen is you spend X amount of hours trying to do it and you get no result. So, you

play with these things in your head, but I just know, again, I've been through this over so many

times is that one yes. And when you get that one yes it feels so much better than if like it's just

given to you. If it was so easy, everyone would do it, and you wouldn't care as much about it.

But because I'm like really fighting day in and day out to make certain things happen, once it

actually happens it's like tremendous. Because I know if I'm working on a new project, it's going

to be successful. It's not about being cocky, it's because good track record, I know what I'm




doing, got the connections, everything is lined up for me. So I know that any company that

works with me is going to win. And then the other companies will see that and eventually, who

knows when it's going to be, we're 40 years old. It'll be a little bit easier and I'll get a little bit

fewer rejections. I'm not really sure. But I've been doing this for over 7 years and still a lot of

rejections. Maybe to get the third book deal, even after all the success, it could be even more

rejections. I'm prepared for that, and I'm fine with that at this point. I've kind of come to grips with

the new reality, or the reality of the industries I'm heading into, with media and speaking, which

two are the most hardest industries right now because so many books, so many people think

they're speakers. People have to compete in such a higher level now because you have to

break through the clutter and compete against unlimited amounts of people.

TRAVIS: Tons and tons of people out there talking on very similar subject these days.

DAN: Yeah. So you have to focus, you have to position yourself, and you got to double down on

things you really care about. And then hopefully certain things work out and those create

opportunities so you can live and thrive in your world.

TRAVIS: Yeah, what I found is earned media has, if I had to put a number to it I would say

maybe an impact of tenfold of paid media. Now, I'm a fan of paid media also because you can

control it. And a lot of the times the business needs to be able to turn volume on and off like a

light switch, because sometimes not being able to meet demand can cause a bad reputation for

you also. So you can turn it on and off. Whereas unpaid media, even SEO or other forms that

are not controllable like that can overwhelm you. And you can't keep up with things. Now, that's

a good problem but it is a problem. And so there's kind of the counterbalance. But the earned

media has so much more power behind it because it's almost as if the magazine or the source is

putting their stamp of approval on you. So I'd put a multiplier of maybe tenfold. I don't know if I

put that in there or not, I think is leading up to--

DAN: It goes back to this, the same thing that we're talking about it . If you're just John Smith,

you're the owner of XYZ Company, that's great. But people are probably not going to look to

hire you and give you a chance. But if you're John Smith CO2 Company that was featured in 2

different publications that people have heard of, then people start to care a little bit more.

TRAVIS: Right. So starting today, what does a business owner in your opinion need to do to get

the type of credibility and recognition. Maybe they don't have the amount of time. You've

invested an incredible amount of time, over thousand interviews, is that right?

DAN: Thirteen hundred.

TRAVIS: Yeah. And that's an incredible amount of time dedicated to that. Most people can't

dedicate that kind of time. But what do you feel like would be the 3, 4, 5, key things that a




business owner should do to position themselves, use in someone of the strategies that you've

used.

DAN: Yeah. One is take a niche, as in don't try and be everything to everyone, you'll be nothing

to no one. Really focus on specific market like, the best use of your product and good service

and almost ignore everyone else.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: I think the second one is, and this is what's really hard, you have to be a content creator.

You have to be able to produce content, and really publish that online and push it out to certain

publications that your audience is in tuned to, so you can reach them. And a new world now

where all these elements, they need as much content as possible in order to make more money.

So, if you write violent articles and you're okay with that you can get published in some of these

Fast Companies, and Forbes, and all these outlets, that you probably couldn't have 5 years ago.

There's a lot of opportunities for violent articles now, I'm writing several right now for my

September launch. That's a huge opportunity, I would say that partnerships are really important.

So if you don't have all the resources, obviously you can outsource, but partner with other

companies that don't compete with you. But sell it to the same people you're trying to sell to. I

think partnerships over the years have been much easier to obtain, and the people are more

welcome because there's so much competition in order to kind of break through the noise

having other resources can help you enable that.

TRAVIS: So partner maybe with vendors or someone that is the vertical that is just before you.

Partner with them and come up with a content strategy.

DAN: Yeah, and then network, right? So anyone who is kind of a gatekeeper in your world, or

somebody influential, invite them to events, get out there and meet them. Promote them, do

whatever you have to do to get in front of them. Part of my thing if I help everyone else first with

their books, they'll want to help me out with my book.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: And that's why I don't publish a book every year, because I need enough years to these

books in order to help out enough people. So when the next book comes out it's that much

bigger.

TRAVIS: Right. Do you ever struggle with finding good topics for your content?

DAN: I'm pretty burned out, I've written over a thousand articles since 2007, and it's definitely

getting harder. And the way I do it, I just base them around new research I'm doing, that's what




keeps-- So I don't write as many articles on a weekly basis, it's more about, I do 6 research

studies in a year. I take elements of the findings of each study. And those become articles that I

write. So, it's more driven is then I went too full, then it's not just out there, people see an article

I've written. But I'm also getting the research out there which shows credibility and supports the

companies that sponsor the research.

TRAVIS: Right. It becomes difficult to keep up with all of your content, and I'm speaking for

myself here too. I've got to keep a core library of what I've wrote on so that I don't cover the

topic too closely or too repetitively. Sometimes you can slice a topic and really drive important

points home on four different angles, right? But you need to keep track of what you have written

and what you're missing. And that becomes a system into itself also. Have you built out a

system that stay on top of those things?

DAN: No, my content development has gone way done. I don't really even update Facebook or

the social networks as much anymore. To me my model has changed so it's less about where

I'm in consulting and more about selling to execs in the HR department and TV producers. And

I'd rather just connect with them directly through email. It's just more effective for me, or on

Twitter, because we're all on Twitter for journalists. Otherwise, there's no real value for me to be

honest because it's smart for people whose models are selling products, as in 5 EBooks, or an

online course or something because then you're selling to the individual. But if you're selling to

companies, it's not as impactful in my opinion. And I've been in the game since the beginning.

And it's really competitive too, right? So, people are falling thousands and thousands of people

on Twitter, or Facebook, it's where you get content. It's really not sustained unless you pay for it.

For Facebook only less than 10% of your post are seen by your followers unless you put money

on it. It's all pay to play now, and so for me I'd rather, because of my model I'd rather reach out

to the exact decision makers and then see what happens.

TRAVIS: It's precise. I like that approach. You'd be surprised. Many people go 20 years without

ever figuring out how to get that precise. It saves you a fortune on marketing if you can do that

within your market, right?

DAN: Absolutely.

TRAVIS: Let me ask you, what book or program made an impact on you related to business

that you'd recommend and why? You may have already told me what it was.

DAN: Yeah, so the article, The Brand Called You by Tom Peters, it's completely changed my

life. He's the most influential figure in my life.

TRAVIS: Right.




DAN: It's a lot of different books, To Sell is Human by Dan Pink. I think Dan Pink is amazing.

He's someone I look up to. I would say Now, Discover Your Strengths by Marcus Buckingham.

He wrote the foreword for my book, he's incredible. I say StrengthsFinder by Tom Rath, he's

another person who mentors me. They're all rock stars. People that I look up to but I think their

books are extremely valuable for the building blocks of what it takes to be successful, whether

it's working for a company or starting your own company. Because it really is about your

strengths. So I'm weak in a lot of areas and I avoid those areas, it's a waste of my time. I'd

rather just double down on my strengths like Marcus would say, and focus solely on things that I

really care about. I have the knowledge and are in the best position to take advantage of.

TRAVIS: Right. I really like Daniel Pinks angle on a lot of things.

DAN: He's amazing, yeah.

TRAVIS: What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently

discovered if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why?

DAN: It's a great question. I'm really basic in technology so I don't really use that many tools.

I'm all about the basics. So I guess that latest one that I've started to use is Google Calendar

just because it syncs with my phone. I know, it's funny because I'm a millennial, I'm only 30

years old.

TRAVIS: Right.

DAN: Unless the technology is really going to help me like Uber, I use. OpenTable I like a lot, I

use. But unless it's really going to help me I'm not going to just use it for the sake of using it, you

know. And that's why a lot of these apps and a lot of these companies fail is because it seems

very cool in the beginning. And then you ask yourself do I really need this? It would be a

complete waste of time for me.

TRAVIS: Yeah, good perspective. Interesting I find that surprising coming from a guy your age.

But I like it, I like to hear that.

DAN: And you'd be surprised because a part of the American Express dated last year, part of

the result was the young people would rather have FaceTime, they'd rather lock into a corporate

office than tweet and text others.

TRAVIS: I think one of the things that we're missing today with all the technology is the ability to

sit in silence and go deep on some topics. And to go deep it takes some time to get there, and

that's where the real gems, and that's where the real gold is. And so few people ever get there

because they're distracted by their phone, they're distracted by their computer, they're distracted

https://www.google.com/calendar/




by a lot of things. And so, all of these apps seem in my opinion to keep people stuck at the

surface and not thinking on a deeper level. And I think that's one of the things that you've been

able to do is go very deep, and I commend you for that. I'm really impressed. Your folks, they

must have had some type of conditioning, a part to do with this. Did your dad do this, your

mom? Give me a little bit of a background of how you got to have this perspective that you

have, which is very unusual by the way.

DAN: Yeah. My dad is a traditional businessman. He had this food distributing company that he

sold 20 years ago. And now he's a travel agent. So he's basically retired but he won't admit it.

And then his brother started -- he owns the Schawbel Corporation, so he gets to use my last

name. And he just sold a part of his company, but that's a lot of entrepreneurs who come for

him. And then my grandfather on my mother's side was big into real estate. But honestly, I didn't

set out to become an entrepreneur. It happened because I found something that I really cared

about and then I did whatever I could to figure out how I can make money from it, so I

committed to doing it full-time. And I'm telling you, the lifestyle change, I think people need to

start thinking about what about my lifestyle to be like and then make decisions to be able to pull

it off. I think that's the key that a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of people especially

where I am right now with 8 floors of all these young entrepreneurs. A lot of them are just trying

to avoid corporate America, or do it because it's the cool thing to do and they'll be respected by

their peers or something. This is how the conversations are now here. I think people need to do

it because it's something that they really like and put their heart into, and because they want to

create a certain lifestyle that fits who they are basically. And one of the things that I'm thinking

about in how to kind of position management 2.0 really is career or what it is, it is a collection of

the decisions you make on a daily basis, that's it.

TRAVIS: Yeah, I agree with you. Looking at it from my own perspective. I like nice high-end

watches, I like high-end exotic cars, but they don't define me. And I don't wear those in a way

that is offensive or in people's face. And that's kind of part of what I hear you saying. You can be

interested in something but it's got to come from the core of your being rather than owning a

ways because it's a cool watch and everyone will think you're cool for it, right?

DAN: And the reason for that is because it's how you come off, right? You can genuinely tell

that I'm excited about this, I'm interested in it, I'll make the sacrifices, whatever it takes, let's do

it. And there's a big difference between someone who's like that and then somebody who's just

trying to get a paycheck. Huge difference, right? And attitude. And the things that's most

fascinating to me is that the number 1 that recruiters look for when recruiting students three

things that ---.

TRAVIS: Hey Dan, I'm sorry, you cut out there. You said the number 1 thing they look for is

what?




DAN: So the number 1 thing that college recruiters look for when hiring recent graduates and

one of the top 3 things that managers are looking for when deciding who to promote is attitude.

If you have a positive attitude, it's big time, right? Attitude will really help you get the promotion,

or get a job in the first place. And the only way to truly have a positive attitude is to be the right

workplace environment that kind of feel challenge, you're working with people you enjoy working

with, you're doing something that plays your strengths. And it's the right location, right company,

etc. So, that's part of why I think people of my age are jumping from job to job every 2 years is

they're trying to find that type of situation. And companies now, they're hiring for cultural fit over

any qualifications because they can easily train you and you'll learn what's necessary for you to

do your job. So, from your perspective, if you're looking to get a job, you want to choose a

company to work for, or create a company that connects with who you are and the type of

people you want to work with, the culture, etc. And if you want to hire people as an entrepreneur

then you want to hire people who really fit in, who have the right attitude, who are really excited

about, who have been tweeting it for like 4 months, who will do whatever it takes to be part of

your company, those are the people that you want. And because of the competition with the

jobs now I think companies are just being more picky for those kind of people.

TRAVIS: Right, I totally agree. Hey, what quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in

business?

DAN: Well, I think the one I said before that's extremely important is "No one will invest in you

unless you invest in yourself first." It's kind of what I live by. If I don't work really hard, why would

someone else want to put their money into me, it just doesn't make sense. Think about it. You're

an artist. Why would Def Jam or whomever want to sign you unless you already have an

audience of hundreds of thousands of people who come out to watch you play. You have to

already be successful in order to become successful.

TRAVIS: Right. Great advise. Hey, how do people connect with you?

DAN: Yeah, you can search my name Dan Schawbel. First website is mine danschawbel.com,

I'm on all the social networks of course, Instagram you name it.

End of Interview

TRAVIS: Excellent, wonderful, thank you so much for that. Remember that you can find all the

links to the books and the resources mentioned here in this show in the show notes. Just go

to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com. Now, before I close the show today, I have a quote from

the famous Bruce Lee, and the quote reads, "The successful warrior is that average man with

laser like focus." Think about it. This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for. To your incredible

success, take care my friend.

http://danschawbel.com/





How We Can Help You

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Travis Lane Jenkins

Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist

Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show

“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your

Business"

http://theentrepreneursradioshow.com/

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