electric fans conversion from clutch.pdf

8/14/2019 electric fans conversion from clutch.pdf

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (Pwnin O'Brien)

byPwnin O'Brien Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:52 pm

Ok, so here is what I have found so far...

In order for an electric fan conversion to be effective, the total area which the fan(s) cover should be equal to or greater than 60% of theradiatorsfinned

area. Also, the fan(s) should be able to pull at least 2,800 CFM's total. Now, there is no way to know which fan to choose just by using the CFM value.However, using the magic of Photoshop, I was able to make a diagram of the radiator and the four possible electric fan setups. Each diagram below is anactual representation of the R50's radiator and all measurements have been reduced to fit on screen. One thing to remember, each fan will have larger

dimensions than the fan blade dimensions, so a 14" diameter fan may actually require 16" or 17" of mounting space. The radiator dimensions (thanks to

slickroger) are: 19 7/8" x 28 1/4"; area of radiator: 561.469 sq. in..

Four 10" FansFan area = 314.16 sq. in. = 55.95% of radiator area

Two 12" FansFan area = 226.194 sq. in. = 40.29% of radiator area

Two 14" FansFan area = 307.876 sq. in. = 54.83% of radiator area
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One 16" F anFan area = 201.062 sq. in. = 35.81% of radiator area

So, from the above diagrams and calculations, it is easy to see that the best option is the four 10" fan setup. However, this is definitely not the most

economical or the easiest to install. The next best option (which is a very close second) is the two 14" fan setup. I think that if both options pull the sameamount of CFM's, there would be a negligible difference in cooling ability.

Now that I know what size I need, the only thing to do is find the highest CFM 14" fan that I can afford.

As for the fan controller, I will need to find the proper temperature to set the turn-on temperature to. According to the FSM, the factory thermostat should

open at 170F (76.5C), meaning I should have the fans turn on at a t emperature above 170F; I am thinking that 180F-190F should suffice. I have alsofound out that thewater control valveopens at 203F (95C); should I adjust the fan controller so that the coolant can get above 203F before the fans turn

on? Why is this temperature so much higher than the thermostat?

I like to do a lot of research on something before I buy it. I like to make sure I check all of my options and find the best one. I posted this information

merely so anybody looking to do this conversion in the future can access all of the necessary information in one convenient spot.

Modified by Pwnin O'Brien at 11:02 PM 10/14/2009
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=400288169747&item=400288169747http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=400288169747&item=400288169747http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=400288169747&item=400288169747http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=400288169747&item=400288169747


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Pwnin O'Brien

Posts:1717

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byslickroger Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:08 pm

I'm sorry this may be dumb but I don't understand the reasons for doing this conversion.

Is the truck not better with the fan running all the time so its definitely cool?

and for all the Temps you stated it now seems you want the fans too cool it down when the engine temp is a little higher than the spec temp, is that notworse for the engine?

Just confused educate me so I can consider doing this mod aswell

slickroger

Posts:919Joined:Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:33 pm

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (slickroger)


slickroger wrote:I'm sorry this may be dumb but I don't understand the reasons for doing this conversion.

Is the truck not better with the fan running all the time so its definitely cool?

and for all the Temps you stated it now seems you want the fans too cool it down when the engine temp is a little higher than the spec temp, is that not

worse for the engine?

Just confused educate me so I can consider doing this mod aswell

Ok, this may be a bit long and boring...

So the factory fan is driven by the fan clutch. This fan clutch is controlled by the "ambient" temperature of the engine, as the engine heats up, a fluid in theclutch heats up and becomes more dense and allows the clutch to engage and turn the fan. As the engine becomes cooler (like on the highway), the engine

will cool down and the clutch fluid will cool down and will disengage the clutch. Even though the clutch is disengaged, the fan will still turn, this is
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because even though the clutch fluid is cool, it still creates friction and turns the fan; this means that the fan is always turning. The belt-driven fan can be a

very inaccurate and inefficient system, since it doesn't really use the engines coolant temperature to dictate the fan speed. So for example, your enginecoolant could sharply rise to 200F but the engines ambient temperature may not rise for another minute, so the fan takes a minute to catch up to the hotter

engine temps. With electric fans, you can measure the coolant temperature immediately and the fans adjust accordingly. This allows for better coolanttemperature stabilization. When you're driving around town, carefully watch your coolant temp needle, it will fluctuate ever so slightly.

Now, the main goal for switching from a belt-driven system to an electric system is to regain horsepower and to get better fuel consumption. When the

clutch is fully engaged, it can require a lot of work to turn it fast, this is work that must be done by the crankshaft. Without a fan, the crankshaft doesn't

have to turn some big clunky fan and it's work is much easier. An electric fan only runs on electricity, which does not require any mechanical energy and

doesn't put any stress on the engine (since the alternator has the same rotational resistance regardless of the electrical load).

Let me know if that makes sense, it's a little late and my thought process is a little sloppy right now.

Pwnin O'Brien

Posts:1717

Joined:Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:10 pmLocation:New JerseyCar:2003 Nissan Pathfinder

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byDuckman540i Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:36 pm

When converting to an electric fan setup you are reducing the parasitic loss the engine gets from running the large fan clutch etc. This will free up thehorsepower that was supposed to be there in the first place by reducing the load on the engine.

Benefits:

-Free up horsepower that was lost (10-12HP)-Better gas mileage (2-3 MPG)

-Improved throttle response

Duckman540i

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (Duckman540i)

byW O T Wed Oct 14, 2009 5:52 pm

I dont think you need to worry about how much area the fans take up on thesurface of the rad, just match or exceed the cfm's of the stocker.

How are you planning on getting the fans to turn on and off?

Ive got an electric in my Crx on a 1/2 size rad, but it simply turns on when the car is on, you seem to want it to work properly
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W O T

Posts:975

Joined:Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:45 pmCar:2001 Infiniti Qx4

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (W O T)


W O T wrote:I dont think you need to worry about how much area the fans take up on thesurface of the rad, just match or exceed the cfm's of the stocker.



If you aren't gonna use a shroud with your fans then you have to worry about the surface area of the fans. The factory fan probably pulls somewhere in theneighborhood of 3000 CFM's, but since it uses a shroud it's able to evenly distribute the 3000 CFM's over the entire radiator. When you surface mount the

fans, you can get hotspots if you don't cover all of the vertical races with the fan.

I'm probably gonna buy a dual electric fan controller or two separate electric fan controllers. I'll probably set the controllers to turn the fans on around

180F. It'll probably take some experimenting to find the sweet spot. I also will probably wire one fan to always turn on (and stay on) when the A/C is on.

Pwnin O'Brien

Posts:1717Joined:Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:10 pmLocation:New Jersey


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byslickroger Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:06 pm

W O T wrote:



Thats what I don't get. If your converting to electric why not have the fan on when the car is on like WOT said, would that not be the best setup for efficient

cooling, and the power wouldn't matter because the alternator is running?

fastpathy35 says his turns on when the car is off why would you need that. I mean cant the car only get cooler when its off does it really need the fans help
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when not running?

Now depending on the size of fans you choose are you going to custom make a shroud for them is that easy? or is there somewhere you can get those?

Sorry for the questions

Thanks for the answers

Heres the cellophane topic you asked about earlier in case you didn't see it

CLICK HERE

Modified by slickroger at 9:12 PM 10/14/2009

slickroger

Posts:919

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slickroger wrote:

Thats what I don't get. If your converting to electric why not have the fan on when the car is on like WOT said, would that not be the best setup for efficient

cooling, and the power wouldn't matter because the alternator is running?

fastpathy35 says his turns on when the car is off why would you need that. I mean cant the car only get cooler when its off does it really need the fans help

when not running?

Now depending on the size of fans you choose are you going to custom make a shroud for them is that easy? or is there somewhere you can get those?

Sorry for the questions

Thanks for the answers

Having the fans always on is definitely an option, but this can cause your cooling system temperature to fluctuate wildly. This is not necessarily a good

thing. When you start your car in the morning and when you're driving on the highway, your fan usually does not need to operate. If the fan is running, it

may cool the coolant below the normal operating temperature which will cause your vehicle to run improperly (and likely cause the MIL to illuminate).

I think fastpathy35 just wired the fan controller to his battery instead of anignition source.Normally the fans are powered by an ignition source so the fans

only run when the vehicle is running.

Normally (if the fans are purchased separately) you mount the fans directly to the radiator. You can buy some kits which use shrouds, which are definitelybetter for distributing the air evenly over the radiator. Most fans come with universal mounting hardware, but do not come with the fan controller(s). Here's

a pic of what I'm talking about on another Pathy (this is actually fastpathy35's Pathfinder)...
http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/456288-green-display-to-blue-with-cellophahttp:/images.zeroforum.com/new/1/post.gifnehttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/456288-green-display-to-blue-with-cellophahttp:/images.zeroforum.com/new/1/post.gifnehttp://forums.nicoclub.com/slickroger-u85557.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/slickroger-u85557.htmlhttp://www.cardomain.com/ride/3004068http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3004068http://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#wraphttp://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#wraphttp://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#p5145485http://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#p5145485http://forums.nicoclub.com/pwnin-o-brien-u136941.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/pwnin-o-brien-u136941.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/pwnin-o-brien-u136941.htmlhttp://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=350575028947&item=350575028947http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=350575028947&item=350575028947http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=350575028947&item=350575028947http://forums.nicoclub.com/post5145485.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/slickroger-u85557.htmlhttp://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?toolid=10029&campid=CAMPAIGNID&customid=CUSTOMID&catId=6000&type=2&ext=350575028947&item=350575028947http://forums.nicoclub.com/pwnin-o-brien-u136941.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#p5145485http://forums.nicoclub.com/electric-fan-conversion-t455221.html#wraphttp://www.cardomain.com/ride/3004068http://forums.nicoclub.com/slickroger-u85557.htmlhttp://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/456288-green-display-to-blue-with-cellophahttp:/images.zeroforum.com/new/1/post.gifne


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Pwnin O'Brien

Posts:1717Joined:Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:10 pmLocation:New Jersey


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byW O T Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:30 pm

Pwnin OBrien wrote:

Having the fans always on is definitely an option, but this can cause your cooling system temperature to fluctuate wildly. This is not necessarily a good

thing. When you start your car in the morning and when you're driving on the highway, your fan usually does not need to operate. If the fan is running, itmay cool the coolant below the normal operating temperature which will cause your vehicle to run improperly (and likely cause the MIL to illuminate).

Naw man you cant "overcool" your coolant, Elec fans arent loud or anything, having them running when the car is on would be enough. Id buy someelectrics and mount them on the front as pushers. But im in canada, I could probly run without a fan for the next 6 months its so damn cold up here.
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8/13

I think I may just try this though

W O T

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (W O T)

byfastpathy35 Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:06 pm

lol i was reading through and thought to myself.."that pic looks real familiar." yes that is my pathfinder and i have a electronic switch the reads the temp

that kicks the fans off and on wired directly to the battery. i mean i could very easily hook it to an ignition sourcebut how it acts now doesnt bother me in

the least. other than people asking why my car is running. they dont stay on very long and they only turn off and on for maybe 30mins. i have one 12'' and10'' i dont see you getting much more than that. with the mounting tabs on the fans it get pretty tight.

fastpathy35

Posts:135

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (fastpathy35)

byW O T Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:39 pm

Which fans you got?

W O T

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9/13


byslickroger Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:33 am

Pwnin OBrien wrote:

Are the mounts through the fins, did you have to squeeze a space through the rad to for every mounting device?

slickroger

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byfastpathy35 Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:50 am

yeah they are through the fins. be sure to use the springs and the foam pads. if not youll run into a problem i had with my mustang. the mounting tabs willrub through the radiator.
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10/13

fastpathy35

Posts:135

Joined:Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:56 pmCar:2003 pathfinder se k&n intake, ram air set up, electric fan conversion, flowmaster super 40 dual exh

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (SnowSurfLax)

byfueler Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:00 pm

SnowSurfLax wrote:The one guy I know of who did it (not on this board) didn't like the outcome at all and went back to a stock fan as it worked better.He's a mod on other boards, so no worries about it being some amateur, he's often asked such technical questions as he's just about done it all.

yup that was xplorx4.

he took it off cause it didnt cool as well as the stock mechanically-driven fan, even if he left the e -fan running 100% of the time.

its for sale if anybody wants it. not sure why you'd want to downgrade, though.

BAJA TESTED - YOUR MAMA APPROVED

fueler

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion (fueler)

byW O T Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:18 pm
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11/13

Do you have an idea or a link as to what fan he used though fueler, the thought of free horsepower just gets me horny, and my cars got plenty of juice for a

whimpy fan

W O T

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byPwnin O'Brien Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:47 pm

So I'm resurrecting an old thread. I have been doing a lot of research on electric fans and I have found the holy grail of electric fans. I also found that theR50 radiator only has 27 5/8" of finned area, so two 14" fans was out of the question, but two 12" fans will work perfectly. The following fan can pull

3,300CFM with only 7.5 amps of current. My next project will be putting two of these on my radiator with a dual controller.

It's Perma-cool's 12" h igh-performance electric fan
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12/13

Pwnin O'Brien

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Re: (Pwnin O'Brien)

byJonathanPrem Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:47 am

Can someone do a write up on how to remove the fan and installing the fan with switch's.

please and thanks

02 Path-22" 's, Lowered, Full audio system-DD/Family whip95 240sx- Black, Manual conversion,HSD coilovers, Origin rear bumper , Soon to be KA-T

JonathanPrem

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Re: Electric Fan Conversion

byCanuckQx4 Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:18 am

did you ever install these pownin, I just checked out my rad setup and Id like to do this mod

I also think putting the ans on the front of the rad could save you ALOOOOOOOOOOT of room

any advice??

CanuckQx4

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13/13

Re: Electric Fan Conversion

by01silvapathy Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:28 am

If you do this PLEASE do a write up on what you did as im pretty interested in doing this mod

Andrew2001 LE 3.56.5in SFD Lift (4in blocks, 4.5in strut spacers, 3in spring spacer/2in ac coils)

JWT Pop Charger

4 Hella Roof Lights on Custom Bar35x12.5 BFG MT KM1

01silvapathy

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