Ukedchat 22 Dec 2011

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22nd December 2011 National Curriculum

Review Discussion

username time status

ukedchat 20:00

It's 8pm @NightZooKeeper & @EThinking are helping with

#ukedchat this evening. Discussion about #natcur review

http://t.co/mQpl0dCs

ukedchat 20:01

Please remember to include #ukedchat in all your tweets, so they

can all be collected for the archive.

clairegowland 20:02 #ukedchat - xmas hols and I am reading the natcur review!

ethinking 20:02

#ukedchat #natcur well I have to say that I welcome the review and

think its conclusions are sensible

simcloughlin 20:02

RT @ethinking: #ukedchat #natcur it's 8 o'clock it's two days before

Xmas and what are we doing??? Discussing work

#whatmakesteachersgreat

ethinking 20:02

#ukedchat #natcur it's 8 o'clock it's two days before Xmas and what

are we doing??? Discussing work #whatmakesteachersgreat

gsussex 20:03

#ukedchat Twitter has certainly given educators quick access to the

documentation and a number of summaries

nightzookeeper 20:03

Will shortening key stages encourage more standardized testing?

#ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:03 @reallara Not a realistic aim or sensible advice. #ukedchat

KiDu89 20:03

Oh dear. Chelsea v Spurs I'm afraid will have to take prime

attention spot over #ukedchat tonight. #cmonchels

reallara 20:03

Not moving class on until all have understood... How would that

work? How would it be defined? #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:04

Hi pleased to take part in first #ukedchat. The #natcur interesting

but we do need a NC post 14?

eyebeams 20:04 I think people should crowdsource their own #natcurric #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:04

@simcloughlin @reallara Agreed. Not a sensible approach at all. A

bit like holding children back which I remember years ago

#ukedchat

reallara 20:04

@ethinking It will be interesting to see if the implementation will

be sensible #ukedchat

nightzookeeper 20:04 @clairegowland that's commitment to teaching! #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:05

@reallara #ukedchat I agree. How would g and t exceed under this

regime? Or those at other end of scale would be rushed.

bevevans22 20:05 @jimpknight Welcome to #ukedchat - hope you enjoy it!

ethinking 20:05

@reallara #ukedchat Levels that aren't levels and parental

consultation?

Marlenebot 20:05

Ooh I'm on Twitter! RT @jodieworld: @ethinking Bon soir DelBoy!

#ukedchat

Marlenebot 20:05

Ooh I'm on Twitter! RT @jodieworld: @ethinking But it's been

making me laugh! Good old DelBoy! #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:05

RT @eyebeams: I think people should crowdsource their own

#natcurric #ukedchat - agreed. Great idea all round :)

clairegowland 20:05 @nightzookeeper well I have one eye on the footie. #ukedchat

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Review Discussion

simcloughlin 20:05

@nightzookeeper: Will shortening key stages encourage more

standardized testing? #ukedchat

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Review Discussion

bevevans22 20:08

@gsussex Maybe that is the plan. Maybe inclusion in classrooms as

we know it (and it's not always great now) will be pushed aside

#ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:08

But then I teach 'Yr 9' work at a 'Yr 7' level because that is the level

the students are working. Do years really mean anything?

#ukedchat

reallara 20:08

@simcloughlin @nightzookeeper Although if the concept of levels

for assessment changes then might all look different #ukedchat

ukedchat 20:08

#ukedchat tonight talking about the #natcur review. Guest

appearance @jimpknight Very welcome indeed.

philallman1 20:09

Lifelong learning should mean benchmarks are not lineated by age

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:09

@bevevans22 @gsussex I hope so. Inclusion is no excuse for

teaching to the lowest common denominator. #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:09

@jimpknight Fun. If it gets busy you might find it easier to follow

on twitterfall #ukedchat - I suggest it to all newbies...

simcloughlin 20:09

@jimpknight @ethinking Would that devalue the GCSEs that

people already have, then? Nice idea in theory, but practical?

#ukedchat

chrisrat 20:09

Still not convinced about putting ICT in as a basic subject. Where is

the consistency in teaching? #natcur #ukedchat

alecwaters 20:10

@chrisrat I agree - with network meetings a thing of the past this

has become more challenging already! #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:10

@oldandrewuk @gsussex Done properly that is not how inclusion

works. Certainly never the case with me - high expectations for all

#ukedchat

i_atkinson 20:10 RT @TeacherToolkit: The 5 minute lesson plan #UKEdChat

simcloughlin 20:10

#ukedchat Here are my (initial) personal thoughts on the review:

http://t.co/zfSZpKWt

gsussex 20:10

#ukedchat I am concerned splitting KS2 into 2 x 2 years may restrict

what is taught when/give less flexibility

peter_lydon 20:10

RT @lauwailap1: RT @TeacherToolkit: The 5 minute lesson plan

#UKEdChat - COol. Thanks for that.

lisibo 20:10

RT @ethinking: #ukedchat #natcur it's 8 o'clock it's two days before

Xmas and what are we doing??? Discussing work

#whatmakesteachersgreat


@reallara @simcloughlin how would you see levels changing? Shall

we move away from leveling children? #ukedchat

alecwaters 20:10

if teaching of 'basic' curriculum subjects was not prescribed would

it cause some teachers to stay in their comfort zone? #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:11

@Teaching_LMP #ukedchat I agree. In SEN actual yrs count for

nothing. We teach the KS they are in at 1 or 2 KS levels below.

Works ok

clairegowland 20:11

@4ICT #ukedchat less reporting for ICT you say! Merry Christmas!

:0)

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Review Discussion

Bdunford 20:11

@mattbritland @alecwaters It's almost saying ICT & D&T is not as

important as Art, MFL & Humanities. Upsetting as an ICT teacher.

#ukedchat

reallara 20:11

@alecwaters That should be an issue for individual school

leadership surely? As a leader I would welcome that kind if

flexibility #ukedchat

ethinking 20:11@jimpknight #ukedchat If we abandon gcse it shouldn't be to allowkids to be pushed into narrow career silos -

simcloughlin 20:11

@gsussex Haven't most schools already split KS2 anyway? I've seen

lots of jobs for LKS2 Co-ord or UKS2 Co-ord. #ukedchat

bellaale 20:11

RT @jimpknight: @ethinking is there a case for stopping GCSE's at

16s to free up 14-19 for more relevant learning choices #ukedchat


RT @jimpknight: @ethinking is there a case for stopping GCSE's at

16s to free up 14-19 for more relevant learning choices #ukedchat

philallman1 20:11

@nightzookeeper @reallara @simcloughlin Yes I see this as a

positive IF 'next steps' are used effectively #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:11

RT @simcloughlin: #ukedchat Here are my (initial) personal

thoughts on the review: http://t.co/zfSZpKWt

4ICT 20:11

@alecwaters Did I interpret the #natcurric review correctly, ICT

won't have to report to parents if in Basic curric #talkictglos

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:11

@jimpknight @ethinking Students already struggle due to the

difference between GCSEs and A-level without lowering the bar

further. #ukedchat

ukedchat 20:11

@AndrewPollard7 was also invited along to this #ukedchat #natur

session

alecwaters 20:12

@reallara I would embrace the flexibility as well, but not sure all

will @4ICT #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:12

@bevevans22 @gsussex The point is inclusion doesn't work.

Nobody can teach below level 3 and A* together effectively

#ukedchat

clairegowland 20:12

@Bdunford I think its right to reclassify ICT. I didnt read it as being

less important, more all encompassing! #ukedchat

ethinking 20:12 @gsussex #ukedchat doesn't that reflect what many already do

bellaale 20:12

tricky... #spoty and #ukedchat on the same night! What Twitter

was made for... ;)

jimpknight 20:12

@simcloughlin @ethinking Could have fewer GCSEs at 14 - but

tempting robust do away with them now you have to stay on post

16 #ukedchat


@jimpknight @ethinking great point, another way of removing the

focus from teaching to tests instead of skills #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:12

@nightzookeeper We are not levelling children we are just using

another bunch of metrics for grouping not learning #ukedchat

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Review Discussion

gsussex 20:12

@bevevans22 #ukedchat could lead to some state schools being

more selective? Taking options away from some to be with their

peers?

DrSpenny 20:12

#ukedchat is #natcur fit for purpose? Sadly more 19thC than 21stC.

Lack of ambition very sad and impoverished compared to QCA big

picture!

oldandrewuk 20:13@DrSpenny #ukedchat The important thing is that it is not anotherdumbed-down 20th century curriculum.

simcloughlin 20:13

@jimpknight @ethinking Very good point. Hadn't thought of it like

that. #ukedchat

peter_lydon 20:13

#ukedchat Anyone know where I can get a good summary of the

structure of ed system in England as it currently is? Thanks in

advance

jimpknight 20:13

@oldandrewuk But why do we still need public exams at 16 - it is

out of date #ukedchat

valleseco 20:13

@simcloughlin Have you seen my initial thoughts as well?

http://t.co/6cgf2RY5 (MFL bias, obvs) #ukedchat

ethinking 20:13

#ukedchat what's the point of a #natcur if the academies and free

schools are not compelled to follow it?

ethinking 20:13

#ukedchat what's the point of a #natcur if the academies and free

schools are not compelled to follow it?


@eyebeams agreed, we need to look closely at this system.

Children become labelled at a very early age #ukedchat


@eyebeams agreed, we need to look closely at this system.

Children become labelled at a very early age #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:13

@alecwaters on one hand ICT may look second best / optional and

therefore attract little investment in resource and training

#ukedchat

chrisrat 20:13

@alecwaters on one hand ICT may look second best / optional and

therefore attract little investment in resource and training

#ukedchat

bevevans22 20:13

@gsussex #ukedchat That would be my thoughts too. Enforcing

more segregation...

bevevans22 20:13

@gsussex #ukedchat That would be my thoughts too. Enforcing

more segregation...

Bdunford 20:14

@clairegowland I guess ICT runs the risk of being removed as a

seperate subject when put in he same group as Sex Ed and careers?

#ukedchat

eyebeams 20:14

How about levels for collaborative learning around competencies

#ukedchat

bevevans22 20:14

@oldandrewuk @gsussex Surely it depends on a number of factors:

appropriate support, class size, differentiation, etc. #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:14

@ethinking agreed but it fits with UCTs and we desperately need

some new thinking about 14-19 post-diplomas #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:14

@valleseco Keeping up with #ukedchat tweets at the mo, but I'll

have a look afterwards.

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Review Discussion

alecwaters 20:14

@chrisrat this would be my worry - you need support from your

leadership team. #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:14

@alecwaters on the other hand, allowing it to support teaching of

other subjects may be the spark ICT needs #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:14RT @valleseco: @simcloughlin Have you seen my initial thoughts aswell? http://t.co/6cgf2RY5 (MFL bias, obvs) #ukedchat

alecwaters 20:15

RT @Bdunford: @mattbritland @alecwaters It's almost saying ICT

& D&T is not as important as Art, MFL & Humanities. Upsetting as

an ICT teacher. #ukedchat

aangeli 20:15

RT @jimpknight: @ethinking agreed but it fits with UCTs and we

desperately need some new thinking about 14-19 post-diplomas

#ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:15

@eyebeams I was very surprised to see that collaborative and

independent learning weren't mentioned at all in the review.

#ukedchat

alecwaters 20:15

@chrisrat Already trying to do that as I see that an excellent way to

demonstrate the sustainability of specialist #ict teaching.

#ukedchat

Spongelab 20:15

Build-a-Body human anatomy game now free on iPad

http://t.co/qQVHC5wG #edchat #lrnchat #edtech #stem #gbl

#ukedchat

TeacherToolkit 20:15

RT @ethinking: #ukedchat what's the point of a #natcur if the

academies and free schools are not compelled to follow it?

oldandrewuk 20:16

@bevevans22 @gsussex With enough staff, money, time and

resources any problem can be worked round. But we shouldn't

have to. #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:16

@nightzookeeper @ethinking @jimpknight Careers are changing

rapidly students need the skills to cope with that #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:16

RT @jimpknight: @AngusWillson that is the other irony - lots of talk

about a NC that won't apply to most schools #ukedchat

#Goveconfused

Lynnewin100 20:16

RT @ethinking: #ukedchat what's the point of a #natcur if the

academies and free schools are not compelled to follow it?

ukedchat 20:16

@NightZooKeeper & @EThinking are helping with #ukedchat this

evening. Discussion about #natcur review http://t.co/mQpl0dCs

gsussex 20:16

@jimpknight #ukedchat Jim does your party agree with review

suggestions generally/specifically? #natcur

Jet1577 20:16

RT @simcloughlin: Today I read most of the National Curriculum

Review. Ahead of tonight's #ukedchat, here are some of my initial

thoughts http://t.co/zfSZpKWt

4ICT 20:16

@alecwaters But moving it down to Basic sends the wrong signal to

SMTs.#ukedchat

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cherrylkd 20:16

@bevevans22 @oldandrewuk @gsussex #ukedchat Inclusion

means helping all children 2 achieve the best they can . High

expectation 4 all is key

jimpknight 20:16

@AngusWillson that is the other irony - lots of talk about a NC that

won't apply to most schools #ukedchat #Goveconfused

Teaching_LMP 20:16

I was wondering this@ethinking: #ukedchat what's the point ofa #natcur if the academies and free schools are not compelled to

follow it?

reflectivemaths 20:16

@eyebeams Trying to level competences and plts type things is a

nightmare! #ukedchat

Paddymcgrath 20:17

RT @oldandrewuk: @DrSpenny #ukedchat The important thing is

that it is not another dumbed-down 20th century curriculum.

HilaryNunns 20:17

RT @bevevans22: @oldandrewuk @gsussex Surely it depends on a

number of factors: appropriate support, class size, differentiation,

etc. #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:17

@Teaching_LMP @ethinking in theory though, they wouldn't be

that free if they were compelled to follow the #natcur #ukedchat

4ICT 20:17

@Lynnewin100 Hopefully more schools then become Academies?

#ukedchat

AndrewPollard7 20:17

Hi! Just trying to see patterns in issues coming up. Key dilemma in

review was to lighten requirements whilst retaining breadth.

#ukedchat

debbisimpson 20:17

@AndrewPollard7 if you put in #ukedchat everyone can pick up

your comments

bevevans22 20:17

@oldandrewuk @gsussex Seeing inclusion as a problem to be

worked round probably isn't helping things... #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:17

@reflectivemaths depends who is doing it and how it is done

#ukedchat

Bdunford 20:17

Could academies eventually be told to sign up to the #natcur in

some way? A bit of a waste of time if many are exempt? #ukedchat

ethinking 20:17

@jimpknight #ukedchat agreed - most schools will be academy at

secondary - so this will be irrelevant anyway

Teaching_LMP 20:17

RT @Bdunford: @clairegowland I guess ICT runs the risk of being

removed as a seperate subject when put in he same group as Sex

Ed and careers? #ukedchat


@Bdunford @clairegowland huge risk of ICT being lost. Would

schools avoid the subject ticking boxes to say they are covering it?

#ukedchat

jimpknight 20:17

@nightzookeeper @ethinking Career choices need hard thinking

and urgent fix of IAG #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:18

@Natty08 @bevevans22 @oldandrewuk @gsussex #ukedchat

you'd be surprised. Some lower ability left to TA in some schools.

So wrong.

philallman1 20:18 Welcome @Andrewpollard7 to #ukedchat

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ethinking 20:18

#ukedchat @Bdunford @clairegowland again - many schools do ict

badly - so what's the point in paying lip service?

SheliBB 20:18

@nightzookeeper @eyebeams I read this week that schools in

Finland don't assess until teen years.They have one of best ed

systems #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:18@4ICT @alecwaters Why are people accepting this as gospelalready what are the alternatives? #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:18

Agreed! @4ICT: @alecwaters But moving it down to Basic

sends the wrong signal to SMTs.#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:18

@cherrylkd @bevevans22 @gsussex #ukedchat In practice,

inclusion means letting kids get away with murder and ignoring

genuine difficulties.

clairegowland 20:19

@nightzookeeper #ukedchat @bdunford What school would stop

teaching and using technology. Embedding it in curric makes it

relevant

nightzookeeper 20:19@SheliBB @eyebeams very interesting, I wonder if you post thelink? #ukedchat


RT @cherrylkd: @bevevans22 @oldandrewuk @gsussex #ukedchat

Inclusion means helping all children 2 achieve the best they can .

High expectation 4 all is key

SheliBB 20:19

@nightzookeeper @eyebeams so maybe we should follow their

lead, which could mean our children don't get labelled

academically #ukedchat


RT @SheliBB: @nightzookeeper @eyebeams I read this week that

schools in Finland don't assess until teen years.They have one of

best ed systems #ukedchat

philallman1 20:19

@jimpknight @gsussex @KevinBrennanMP @StephenTwigg

#ukedchat Nothing as far as I have seen which is not good!

oldandrewuk 20:19

@bevevans22 @gsussex #ukedchat Better than ignoring problems,

or claiming everything is about resources.


@4ICT @alecwaters do not like the terminology 'basic' at all!

#ukedchat

ethinking 20:20

@4ICT @lynnewin100 #ukedchat the subtext of all this lunacy is to

drive all schools to be academy

oldandrewuk 20:20

@AndrewPollard7 Biggest potential problem is the stuff on

assessment. Although it warns against it, this could turn into A.P.P.

#ukedchat

MrsThorne 20:20

#ukedchat if ICT wasn't compulsory would it free up ICT staff to

teach keener pupils for eg programming which has disappeared in

many scls?

Teaching_LMP 20:20

@chrisrat Agreed, although something being "national" but not

followed by everyone seems counter productive #natcur #ukedchat

philallman1 20:20

The prime reason I would go academy is to ignore the #natcur

edicts based on govian principles #ukedchat

dockers_hoops 20:20

There's no point in having a 'National' curriculum while education is

so politicised. Take the ideology out of learning #ukedchat

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bevevans22 20:20

@oldandrewuk @gsussex #ukedchat You may be talking from

experience but that's not how I ever found it.

reallara 20:20

@4ICT @alecwaters Maybe the term 'basic' is the issue. Being out

of prescribed NC could give flexibility to allow change #ukedchat

Educationchat 20:20

@bevevans22 @oldandrewuk @gsussex Course inclusion can work

for good teachers - maybe @oldandrewuk needs some helphimself! #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:21

Get frustrated with this constant comparison with the rest of the

world. We should do what's best for our children in our society

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:21

RT @simcloughlin: @eyebeams I was very surprised to see that

collaborative and independent learning weren't mentioned at all in

the review. #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:21

RT @philallman1: @jimpknight @gsussex @KevinBrennanMP

@StephenTwigg #ukedchat Nothing as far as I have seen which is

not good!

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Review Discussion

DrSpenny 20:22

@AndrewPollard7 #ukedchat I don't get the lightening

requirements - bit like throwing parachute off crashing plane

#natcur needed ambition


@clairegowland @bdunford certainly does, do you think this would

happen on the whole? #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:22

@Teaching_LMP one of the two has the wrong name! Probably

the #natcur #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:22

RT @jimpknight: @gsussex to be honest not seen what

@KevinBrennanMP or @StephenTwigg have said about it

#ukedchat < they need to speak out

clairegowland 20:23

#ukedchat I didn't see it as getting rid of ICT, more like making it

embedded. Isn't that the best way? Teach relevant ICT skills.?

bevevans22 20:23

@AndrewPollard7 @reallara @4ICT @alecwaters It still makes

those subjects sound unimportant though (maybe that's just me...)

#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:23

RT @Teaching_LMP: Get frustrated with this constant comparisonwith the rest of the world. We should do what's best for our

children in our society #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:23

RT @Teaching_LMP: Get frustrated with this constant comparison

with the rest of the world. We should do what's best for our


Educationchat 20:23

#ukedchat teaching the children should always be more important

than the curriculum. Teach them what they need to make progress.

Educationchat 20:23

#ukedchat teaching the children should always be more important

than the curriculum. Teach them what they need to make progress.


@SheliBB @nightzookeeper @eyebeams The whole Finland thing is

part of massive cultural difference #ukedchat

ethinking 20:23

#ukedchat @chrisrat @alecwaters we may see more truth, less

money wasted... #technologyisnottheonlyway

chrisrat 20:23

RT @4ICT @chrisrat Litte resource/training from HTs! I'll assume

many ICT teachers are v concerned about moving 'down' to Basic

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:23

@bevevans22 @gsussex I'm glad to say that's pretty much how

OFSTED found it in their review. #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:23

@nightzookeeper @SheliBB http://t.co/eF9tEQHA at Whole

Education's conference 2 weeks ago #ukedchat I recorded the

video and slides too

SheliBB 20:23

@nightzookeeper @eyebeams http://t.co/2NUo15L0 26 facts

about ed system in Finland #ukedchat

reallara 20:23

RT @Teaching_LMP: Get frustrated with this constant comparison

with the rest of the world. We should do what's best for our


timbuckteeth 20:24

RT @clairegowland: #ukedchat I didn't see it as getting rid of ICT,

more like making it embedded. Isn't that the best way? Teachrelevant ICT skills.?

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Review Discussion

NickiA10 20:24

@chrisrat @4ICT I bet they are as how many would employ ICT

teachers to actually teach it?! #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:24

#ukedchat is the aim 2 embed ICT throughout? Therefore less

reporting as a discrete subject? That would be sensible

reallara 20:24

@Teaching_LMP Absolutely. That was my main reaction yesterday.

We need a curriculum appropriate to our children and context#ukedchat

Educationchat 20:24

@Teaching_LMP Agree a lot! Cultures and societies are different.

Hard to compare. Learn from best but don't copy. Won't work.

#ukedchat

eyebeams 20:24

@nightzookeeper @SheliBB All teachers have a masters - they all

do Action Research #ukedchat


RT @eyebeams: @nightzookeeper @SheliBB http://t.co/eF9tEQHA

at Whole Education's conference 2 weeks ago #ukedchat I recorded

the video and slides too

jodieworld 20:24

I am sure the gov are quite happy to force the last remainingschools to become academies - then we watch the gap widen :-(

#ukedchat

chrisrat 20:24

@ethinking @alecwaters it certainly isn't, but it shouldn't be

ignored #ukedchat #natcur

oldandrewuk 20:24

@Educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex The whole of SEN policy

has been a disaster for a long time now, and it is coming to light

#ukedchat


@SheliBB @eyebeams I am completely against labelling, this is not

an effective way for ch to become life long learners #ukedchat


@aangeli @mrsthorne certainly ICT teachers are becoming more

vital as the need for PD grows #ukedchat


RT @Educationchat: @Teaching_LMP Agree a lot! Cultures and

societies are different. Hard to compare. Learn from best but don't

copy. Won't work. #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:25

@clairegowland How about work in groups with different experts

and groups like this > http://t.co/Cwmoxdep #mozfest #ukedchat

debbisimpson 20:25

#ukedchat@chrisrat that's my concern too - already seen as

expensive and "the kids do it at home"

Teaching_LMP 20:25

RT @Educationchat: #ukedchat teaching the children should always

be more important than the curriculum. Teach them what they

need to make progress.

dawnhallybone 20:25

a review is good but when will the national curriculum stop being a

political football? What happens when govt changes again?

#ukedchat

mattbritland 20:25 @mikematthewsCDN #ukedchat


@MrsThorne #ukedchat Nice idea would probably mean ICT

teachers have jobs cut and money spent on extra maths teachers

clairegowland 20:25

RT @cherrylkd: #ukedchat is the aim 2 embed ICT throughout? -Exactly. Making it relevant for students and not a word processing

exercise!

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Review Discussion

Teaching_LMP 20:25 @bevevans22 I completely agree! #ukedchat

ethinking 20:26

#ukedchat ok so we have threads: what's the basic curric mean,

sustainability of inclusion - push to more age related testing ? No?

Teaching_LMP 20:26

This is my first #ukedchat and blimey does it get the blood

pumping! It's more difficult to keep up with than "that class"

bevevans22 20:26

RT @jodieworld: I am all for embedding ICT - but for schs where it

hasn't happened yet, I worry it never will if pushed down agenda of

gov #ukedchat

reallara 20:26

@AndrewPollard7 @bevevans22 @reallara @4ICT @alecwaters

Could be given clarification titles:e.g.National=prescribed

basic=flexible #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:26

@dawnhallybone We then have another political football arena w/

even more reviews and changes & actually nothing much being

done! #ukedchat

lauwailap1 20:26

For ICT it means no prescribed content, but still compulsory as asubject. That means more freedom. Surely that's a good thing?

#ukedchat

jodieworld 20:26

I am all for embedding ICT - but for schs where it hasn't happened

yet, I worry it never will if pushed down agenda of gov #ukedchat


@DrSpenny Reducing extent of centralised requirements was a

main aim of review to enable professional teacher judgement.

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:26

@jimpknight Have you seen how low standards can get when kids

aren't examined in English schools? Look at citizenship or PSHE

#ukedchat

MrsThorne 20:26

@reflectivemaths I think we're all in danger of that in non-core. I'm

considering offering my services to the English dept #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:26

@clairegowland #ukedchat seems the way forward to me. Thanks 4

RT

Teaching_LMP 20:27

RT @nightzookeeper: ICT is an important part of contemporary

society, so should it be a prominent part of the NC? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:27

@simcloughlin @dawnhallybone @jimpknight #ukedchat

personally I'd resurrect Sir Jim's work and build on that!

SheliBB 20:27

@reflectivemaths @nightzookeeper @eyebeams I like their values-

as described in that post-though confess I know very little beyond

#ukedchat

eyebeams 20:27

@AndrewPollard7 @DrSpenny Bettwer if there were an aggregated

network of teacher action research based on practice I think

#ukedchat

alecwaters 20:27

@reallara @andrewpollard7 @bevevans22 @4ict #ukedchat

statutory flexible?

donnaspongebob 20:27

RT @dawnhallybone: a review is good but when will the national

curriculum stop being a political football? What happens when govtchanges again? #ukedchat

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bevevans22 20:27

@OhLottie http://t.co/wNM0V2wD Is that what you wanted?

#ukedchat

lauwailap1 20:27

We (ICT teachers) can teach whatever we want, assuming as an

optimist, that our schools keep us. #ukedchat


ICT is an important part of contemporary society, so should it be a

prominent part of the NC? #ukedchat

reallara 20:27

RT @Educationchat: #ukedchat teaching children should always bemore important than curriculum. Teach them what they need to

make progress.

HilaryNunns 20:27

@bevevans22 inclusive classroom brings fear to many teachers as

no proper training #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:27

@dawnhallybone #ukedchat Good point! If @jimpknight's party

came back into government, would they keep this or change it all

again?

MrsThorne 20:27

@nightzookeeper @aangeli think it would depend on the skillsets:

think a lot of ICT teachers don't have a programming background

#ukedchat

Mr_Thorne 20:28

RT @reallara: RT @Educationchat: #ukedchat teaching children

should always be more important than curriculum. Teach them

what they need to make progress.


@MrsThorne @aangeli how important is this in your point of view?

#ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:28

Why does embedding ICT in other subjects mean it can't also be a

subject in it's own right? It's a fairly big part of society #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:28

#ukedchat What are teachers' views on the proposal to force

publication of SoWs for parents to scrutinise?


@gsussex If recommendation on aims accepted, sustainability

provision would be requirement - communicated to parents,

inspected. #ukedchat

ethinking 20:28

#ukedchat @AndrewPollard7 @drspenny so ur saying slimmer

curric with room 4 professional judgement? I could deliver it in

60% of my week?

lauwailap1 20:28

@OhLottie. Here's the full NC review: http://t.co/8Wx5NJ2y via this

ICT teacher's blog http://t.co/uBEtejUz #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:28


curriculum stop being a political football? What happens when govt

changes again? #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:28

@clairegowland yes and in particular embed coding into Maths

#ukedchat

clairegowland 20:28

#ukedchat If a school felt the need to get rid of ICT specialists in the

year 2012 when everything is about technology, I would be

amazed.

reallara 20:28

RT @Educationchat: @Teaching_LMP Agree a lot! Cultures and

societies are different. Hard to compare. Learn from best but don't

copy. Won't work. #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:28

@Educationchat: #ukedchat teaching the children always moreimportant the curriculum. Teach them what they need 2 make

progress. hear hear

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4ICT 20:28

My take is that the move to 'basic' allows HTs to make the decision

as to IF, HOW LONG and WHAT ICT is in their #ictcurric #ukedchat

debbisimpson 20:28

@aangeli #ukedchat no i don't think so - very worrying - some

academies already ditched ICT staff

MrPhonics 20:28RT @jimpknight: @ethinking is there a case for stopping GCSE's at16s to free up 14-19 for more relevant learning choices #ukedchat


@eyebeams Yep, that's probably true but how would you level how

creative someone is? #ukedchat


we must make sure there is a real curriculum at key stage 4 rather

than just a mechanism for assessment professor husbands

#ukedchat

AngusWillson 20:29

#ukedchat Can see the value of curriculum specified for local

cirumstances, but it will need external challenge and validation.

alecwaters 20:29

RT @nightzookeeper: ICT is an important part of contemporary

society, so should it be a prominent part of the NC? #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:29

@nightzookeeper We should develop and teach "Social Velcro"

around / through the medium of ICT use community and action

research #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:29

@philallman1 @jimpknight #ukedchat How do you change the

status without identifying and testing a distinct body of

knowledge?

NickiA10 20:29

@simcloughlin I think it's imp parents know but danger is they

become 'experts' yet again on what should be taught and how.

#ukedchat

SheliBB 20:29

@jimpknight @reflectivemaths @nightzookeeper @eyebeams it

seems to me that they believe children don't 'grow' by measuring

them #ukedchat

philallman1 20:29

Knowledge is fixed, skills have longevity, reality is current gov want

fixed knowledge taught based on own dogma #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:29

RT @jodieworld: I am all for embedding ICT - but for schs where it

hasn't happened yet, I worry it never will if pushed down agenda of

gov #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:29

@HilaryNunns #ukedchat I know. It is one of those things that is

absent from training unfortunately

cherrylkd 20:29

@oldandrewuk @educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex

#ukedchat Sweeping statement! Not the case for most teachers,

certainly not in spec schs

HilaryNunns 20:29

@jimpknight @oldandrewuk and exams don't always tell us what a

learner knows #ukedchat

gsussex 20:30

#ukedchat @AndrewPollard7 that's good to hear Andrew, thank

you for clarifying

reallara 20:30

@oldandrewuk @jimpknight It isn't the fact they aren't tested it's

the fact that in overcrowded curriculum they get squashed out#ukedchat

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bevevans22 20:30

RT @Teaching_LMP: @ethinking Age has so little to do with ability

#ukedchat - agreed :)

jimpknight 20:30

@simcloughlin @dawnhallybone I'd like us to slim down the

Curriculum and finish it at 14 #ukedchat

reflectivemaths 20:30 @MrsThorne Might be a wise move #ukedchat

aangeli 20:30

@debbisimpson my personal thoughts are is not what is in the

curriculum that is the problem. It's HOW it's being taught .#ukedchat

TeaKayB 20:30

RT @misshbond: RT @philallman1: Knowledge is fixed, skills have

longevity, reality is current gov want fixed knowledge taught based

on own dogma #ukedchat

SheliBB 20:30

@eyebeams @nightzookeeper and teachers are regarded as highly

as doctors... Could that ever happen in the uk? #ukedchat

alecwaters 20:30

@4ICT That could be good or bad depending on where you are

#ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:30 @ethinking Age has so little to do with ability #ukedchat

misshbond 20:30

RT @philallman1: Knowledge is fixed, skills have longevity, reality is

current gov want fixed knowledge taught based on own dogma

#ukedchat

philallman1 20:30

@oldandrewuk @jimpknight #ukedchat by moving to a

competency based curriculum like Aus, Finland and other lauded

nations!

oldandrewuk 20:30

@cherrylkd @educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex #ukedchat

Teachers in special schools are usually the first to object to what's

happened.

norfolkteacher1 20:31

@nightzookeeper Absolutely - ICT should be taught discretely as a

skill and across the curriculum to embed #ukedchat

Lynnewin100 20:31

#ukedchat I think 1 good thing to come out of the #natcur mess is

that lots of schools have got on and changed curriculum based on

the kids

chrisrat 20:31

RT @simcloughlin: #ukedchat What are teachers' views on the

proposal to force publication of SoWs for parents to scrutinise?

SheliBB 20:31




SheliBB 20:31




bobharrisonset 20:31

@bevevans22 Important role for Teaching Schools here...Not many

of first 100 have the ICT mark? #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:31

@HilaryNunns @jimpknight #ukedchat Exams aren't perfect, but

provide a minimum. Without them you get lessons in knitting your

own yoghurt.

lauwailap1 20:31

RT @nightzookeeper: "we must make sure there is a real

curriculum at key stage 4 rather than just a mechanism forassessment" professor husbands #ukedchat

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NickiA10 20:31

@jimpknight @simcloughlin @dawnhallybone A skills focussed

approach would enable that. #ukedchat

chrisrat 20:31

@jimpknight @reflectivemaths @shelibb @nightzookeeper

@eyebeams hadn't Finland dropped off the Gove agenda, or was

that Sweden?! #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:31

@philallman1 @simcloughlin @dawnhallybone I completely agree

#ukedchat

eyebeams 20:31

@AngusWillson Then aggregate it like external examiners and

pump prime it with mentors - much better system than "levellling"

#ukedchat


Should we move towards removing subjects altogether? Would this

provide a more creative education for all? #ukedchat

ethinking 20:31

RT @eyebeams: @nightzookeeper We should develop and teach

"Social Velcro" around / through the medium of ICT use community

and action research #ukedchat

ICTwitz 20:32 Don't get me wrong...would love to see it happen! #ukedchat

ethinking 20:32

@bobharrisonset @bevevans22 #ukedchat don't schools have to

buy support from teaching schools?

oldandrewuk 20:32

@reallara @jimpknight #ukedchat They take up plenty of time. The

problem is they are seen as something any idiot can deliver in any

way.

simcloughlin 20:32

RT @jimpknight: @simcloughlin @dawnhallybone I'd like us to slim

down the Curriculum and finish it at 14 #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:32

@simcloughlin Oh I missed that bit. That would imply there would

need to be SOW in the first place... #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:32

@simcloughlin Some parents will scrutinise and comment, it would

scare me if some of our parents could influence the curriculum.

#ukedchat

ICTwitz 20:32

Can't see this happening, "abandoning the system in which

childrens attainment is judged by levels." #ukedchat

Huge culture change needed

nightzookeeper 20:32 @eyebeams can you define 'social velcro' please? #ukedchat

bucharesttutor 20:32

3 Posts every ICT Co-ordinator should read http://t.co/EZEgYQE1

via @zite #ukedchat a very nice read

timbuckteeth 20:32

RT @jimpknight @simcloughlin @dawnhallybone I'd like us to slim

down the Curriculum and finish it at 14 #ukedchat

dawnhallybone 20:32

@jimpknight @simcloughlin I agree education of children to

important to be changed every time govt does #ukedchat

Bdunford 20:32

Hopefully ICT will be changed to compsci rather than removed

from the #natcur. It's been in need of change for a long time.

#ukedchat

jodieworld 20:32

@clairegowland I mean re: embedding in all subjects. Lots will do it

well but unfortunately lots won't. As happens now #ukedchat

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simcloughlin 20:33 @Teaching_LMP Haha yes! #ukedchat

philallman1 20:33

@oldandrewuk a bit like hoop jumping exams then! @reallara

@jimpknight #ukedchat

eylanezekiel 20:33

@dawnhallybone Are you suggesting schools should be free of

political interference? Accountable to parents/children of course.

#ukedchat

ethinking 20:33@ICTwitz #ukedchat the change in assessment is profound - asystem designed for that will be complex

jodieworld 20:33

Agreed RT @norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeper Absolutely- ICT

should be taught discretely as a skill & across the curriculum to

embed #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:33

@MisiesD It moves the focus away from the qualified teacher being

the expert. #ukedchat

TeacherToolkit 20:33 @reallara @ethinking

eyebeams 20:33

@SheliBB @nightzookeeper But one thing shown 2 make

difference 2 children's learning is quality of teachers #ukedchat

http://t.co/QV70uNQH

Teaching_LMP 20:33

@nightzookeeper That is scarily 'out of the box' thinking!

#ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:33

@oldandrewuk @educationchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat we

want best for all ch. if that means m/stream so be it. Education is

impt, not school

bevevans22 20:33 @bobharrisonset #ukedchat Really?

SheliBB 20:33

@nightzookeeper I liked that about the old new curriculum. The

one that they chucked out. Wonder how much that cost ...

#ukedchat


@bevevans22 @teaching_lmp @ethinking would you say that

some subjects are age appropriate? #ukedchat

clairegowland 20:33

@jodieworld yes, I guess that is the gloomy way to look at it. I saw

it as an opportunity to get out of my subject confines. #ukedchat


@ethinking @drspenny Depends circs but that's aim. Local

curriculum to complement #natcur. 'Essential' + 'contextual'

knowldg. #ukedchat


@SheliBB I don't think UK public is likely to regard teachers highly

when they think it's fine to be bad at maths #ukedchat

philallman1 20:33

Sadly prev govt had opportunity to change culture and chose to

propagate testing culture instead. Need to learn from mistakes

#ukedchat

gsussex 20:34

#ukedchat @AndrewPollard7 did team members visit the

international countries ref. in the review to see systems working in

context?

ICTwitz 20:34 @ethinking #ukedchat HUGE investment would be needed for this.

Teaching_LMP 20:34

@nightzookeeper I would say more topics, rather that subjects.

There are some books I wouldn't teach to 11 year olds for example

#ukedchat

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bevevans22 20:34

@nightzookeeper @teaching_lmp @ethinking I just think children

learn at different rates dependent on many things #ukedchat

adamamos 20:34

RT @Educationchat: #ukedchat teaching the children should always

be more important than the curriculum. Teach them what they

need to make progress.

eyebeams 20:34

@nightzookeeper Yes working in collaborative groups with localinstitutions businesses experts and in longer, slower, deeper ways

#ukedchat


@norfolkteacher1 agreed, should it be regarded as highly as Maths

and English? #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:34

RT @jimpknight: @oldandrewuk @philallman1 I am willing to be

persuaded that some limited exams at 14 are needed to keep

momentum #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:34

RT @jodieworld: Agreed RT @norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeper

Absolutely- ICT should be taught discretely as a skill & across thecurriculum to embed #ukedchat

AngusWillson 20:34

@eyebeams Agree but a mentoring system could be expensive and

need to show quick results. #ukedchat

jimpknight 20:34

@oldandrewuk @philallman1 I am willing to be persuaded that

some limited exams at 14 are needed to keep momentum

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:34

@philallman1 @jimpknight #ukedchat Like American states in the

1920s? Like British schools in the 1970s? Been tried before and

doesn't work.

jodieworld 20:35

@clairegowland gloomy is not the same as realistic. I visit a lot of

schools and see the divide #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:35

@nightzookeeper @teaching_lmp @ethinking As an example my

son was exempt from learning a foreign language due to disabilities

1/2#ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:35

RT @dawnhallybone: @jimpknight @simcloughlin I agree

education of children to important to be changed every time govt

does #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:35

@ethinking @ICTwitz No it won't it will just be different - it needs

a change of will with SMT's and how they manage it #ukedchat

DKMead 20:35

RT @dockers_hoops: There's no point in having a 'National'

curriculum while education is so politicised. Take the ideology out

of learning #ukedchat

eylanezekiel 20:35

@dawnhallybone @SirKenRobinson should be first UK Schools

'Minister' - free of party politics & answerable to professional

debate #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:35

1 of highlighted probs is students not provided w/ skills 4

workplace so surely post 14 should be all about that. #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:35#ukedchat In Scotland we have new Curric for Excellence. Nameannoys me. What was it before? Curric for mediocrity? Grrrrrrr

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HilaryNunns 20:35

@oldandrewuk @jimpknight #ukedchat not at all. I've never taught

that :). But I know they don't tell us what the learner knows

oldandrewuk 20:35

@jimpknight @philallman1 #ukedchat Testing can go too far (look

at the US) but exams do make a difference to expectations.

nightzookeeper 20:35 @Teaching_LMP do you have an opinion on this? #ukedchat


@norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeper That's the idea I think.

#ukedchat

philallman1 20:35

@jimpknight @oldandrewuk #ukedchat not averse 2 examination

just need 2 B PART of process not meaningless destinations in

learning journey

dawnhallybone 20:35

@eylanezekiel should be about accountability to community - can

see 'some' need for involvement but not at detriment of ed

#ukedchat

ICTwitz 20:36

@eyebeams @ethinking But SMT's like to think/know they are

doing it correctly. They need permission (or a scheme!) #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:36

@NickiA10 But lack of basic literacy and numeracy skills has also

been highlighted. Likely to lose those between 14 and 18?

#ukedchat

clairegowland 20:36

@jodieworld: #ukedchat It must be a primary thing, I see amazing

uses of technology and teaching of ICT in secondary schools.

richardblaize 20:36

Completely forgot about #ukedchat tonight. Flicking through looks

like a good one and right up my ICT street.

mattharding007 20:36

RT @cherrylkd: RT @dawnhallybone: @jimpknight

@simcloughlin I agree education of children to important to be

changed every time govt does #ukedchat

lsanger 20:36

RT @timbuckteeth: RT @jimpknight @simcloughlin

@dawnhallybone I'd like us to slim down the Curriculum and finish

it at 14 #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:36

@nightzookeeper @teaching_lmp @ethinking #ukedchat but was

able to do so later, when he was ready for the challenge :)

oldandrewuk 20:36

@cherrylkd @educationchat @bevevans22 #ukedchat Inclusion

wasn't "mainstream if best" it was "mainstream or else".

debbisimpson 20:36

@norfolkteacher1 #ukedchat which is what should be happening

now and brilliantly is, in a few cases, but sadly not enough

PhilipEdmundson 20:36

@nightzookeeper Thematic learning wld liberate thinking about

learning /education from childrens, teachers and parents'

viewpoints.#ukedchat

dawnhallybone 20:36 @eylanezekiel not that would get my 'vote' #ukedchat


RT @jodieworld: Agreed RT @norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeperAbsolutely- ICT should be taught discretely as a skill & across the

curriculum to embed #ukedchat

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simcloughlin 20:37

RT @philallman1: As I say to parents. 'I've yet to hear of any1 being

asked at interview what they got in their KS2 SATs' #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:37

@SheliBB @nightzookeeper I ever did was make my son curious

and love learning - it's about culture #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:37

@simcloughlin Then we ensure that a skills cur enables those

essential skills to be part of it but provide what students need#ukedchat


@jimpknight @oldandrewuk External exams, esp early entries

moderate achievements from both children and teachers

perspectives. #ukedchat

timbuckteeth 20:37

RT @clairegowland: @jodieworld: #ukedchat It must be a primary

thing, I see amazing uses of technology and teaching of ICT in

secondary schools.

bevevans22 20:37

@oldandrewuk @cherrylkd @educationchat Do you have anything

constructive to say on inclusion at all? It would seem

not...#ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:37

@ICTwitz Review says KS2 testing should continue, as per the Bew

report. #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:37 #ukedchat Scottish Curric for Excellence is 3 -18!


@Teaching_LMP abolishing subjects, completely creative

approach? #ukedchat


RT @philallman1: As I say to parents. 'I've yet to hear of any1 being

asked at interview what they got in their KS2 SATs' #ukedchat

clairegowland 20:37 @GeekPeter #ukedchat and how does that work out?

gsussex 20:37

@jimpknight I'd like us to slim down the Curriculum and finish it at

14 #ukedchat. So national tests at 14 then or . . ?

oldandrewuk 20:37

@Educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex #ukedchat As ever the

tolerance of the education establishment is just overwhelming.

philallman1 20:37

@MisiesD at least its more enlightened than ours is proposed!!!

#ukedchat

ruthyie 20:37

RT @Bdunford: Hopefully ICT will be changed to compsci rather

than removed from the #natcur. It's been in need of change for a

long time. #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:38

@dawnhallybone #ukedchat Got to remember that a lot of the

biggest changes have happened without a change of government.

e.g. NC, ECM, SATs

AngusWillson 20:38

@lsanger Finish NC at 14? But three-year GCSE has already reduced

it to 13. #ukedchat

jodieworld 20:38

@clairegowland lol now who is gloomy! I see loads of great use at

primary too. But not at all. All try #ukedchat

ebd35 20:38

RT @lauwailap1: For ICT it means no prescribed content, but still

compulsory as a subject. That means more freedom. Surely that's a

good thing? #ukedchat


@PhilipEdmundson I agree, have seen this work so much in my

own practice. Really engages learners #ukedchat

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DrSpenny 20:38

@jimpknight despite lack of aspiration-would be good to have

cross party commit to process of continuous improvement for

#natcur #ukedchat

dukkhaboy 20:38

If everyone has to stay in education till 19, what's the point of

having major exams at 16? #ukedchat


@gsussex No visits. Most internat research done by DfE team with

advice from EP. But extensive int networks & previous visits.#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:39

@bevevans22 @simcloughlin Scary prospect is that we move back

to a completely content driven cur not skills #ukedchat


RT @bevevans22: @oldandrewuk @cherrylkd @educationchat Do

you have anything constructive to say on inclusion at all? It would

seem not...#ukedchat

mikercameron 20:39

RT @GiftedPhoenix: Ahead of #ukedchat read my robust critique of

the Expert Panel Report, especially Ch8 on Progression:

http://t.co/NCRgvTUQ #natcur #gtvoice

Teaching_LMP 20:39

@nightzookeeper And having a focus, although I like the idea of

having more freedom to involve other subjects (drama, media, ict)

#ukedchat


Should computer science and programming play a more prominent

role in primary and sec education? #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:39

@philallman1 #ukedchat It has less summative and more formative

assessment. More beneficial in my opinion.

gsussex 20:39

@NickiA10: 1 of highlighted probs is students not provided w/

skills 4 workplace so post 14 should be about that. #ukedchat

@jimpknight ?

cherrylkd 20:39

@bevevans22 @oldandrewuk @educationchat #ukedchat I agree. I

refuse to be drawn further on that debate!

benniekara 20:39

@gsussex @jimpknight #ukedchat lots of schools now limiting KS3

to Yrs 7 & 8 to start GCSE early. Testing at this age cannot be

current SATS

jodieworld 20:39

@clairegowland and is this awesome teaching of ICT in EVERY

subject across EVERY secondary school? #ukedchat

ruthyie 20:39

We've embraced APP in science, but the reports to parents lag

behind and still quote one 'mean' level. I'd like a skills diagram.

#ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:39

@dukkhaboy #ukedchat @jimpknight has said that GCSEs at 16

should go.

debbisimpson 20:39

@nightzookeeper @norfolkteacher1 #ukedchat I thnk so - it is an

underpinning skillset for access to the entire curriculum surely

bevevans22 20:39

@NickiA10 @simcloughlin #ukedchat There was a lot of focus on

key skills in the school I worked in. I thought it worked well

Teaching_LMP 20:39

@nightzookeeper As a secondary school teacher I can't really get

my head around the idea if I am honest. I like my hour slots

#ukedchat

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jimpknight 20:39

@eylanezekiel @dawnhallybone @sirkenrobinson He'd be great

but still accountable to Parliament and the Daily Mail :( #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:40

@dukkhaboy #ukedchat To identify serious problems before they

are 19. Otherwise schools could fail to teach and blame it on

colleges.

JaneMurphy4 20:40

RT @dawnhallybone: a review is good but when will the nationalcurriculum stop being a political football? What happens when govt


dockers_hoops 20:40

Worth bearing in mind that we can do anything but we can't do

everything! So review should focus on a much more local

curriculum #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:40

@NickiA10 @simcloughlin We had to put the key skills focus on

every piece of planning and reflect on each lesson too #ukedchat

philallman1 20:40

@oldandrewuk I think U will find that inreality the dogma of testing

was bought by all at top 4 measurability. #ukedchat@dawnhallybone

benniekara 20:40

@AngusWillson @lsanger #ukedchat yes and if this continues, we

need to reconsider what we are testing and why

jimpknight 20:40

Sorry folks must go - this is not combining well with my cooking

duties. Next time. Happy Christmas everyone! #ukedchat

aangeli 20:40

@dukkhaboy I think exams at 19 (only) would be a sensible idea.

#ukedchat

chrisrat 20:40

@ICTwitz @eyebeams @ethinking did I hear the word scheme?!

#shudder #ukedchat

gsussex 20:40

@philallman1: As I say to parents. 'I've yet to hear of any1

being asked at interview what they got in their KS2 SATs'

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:40

@DrSpenny @jimpknight #ukedchat Problem with taking things out

of political debate is that they then end up run by bureaucrats.

reallara 20:41

@NickiA10 @bevevans22 @simcloughlin Absolutely. Wonder what

@ThatIanGilbert 's take on the review is? #ukedchat

ruthyie 20:41

@gsussex @NickiA10 @jimpknight Really? Workplaces should train

people themselves, surely. #ukedchat

aangeli 20:41

RT @nightzookeeper: The arts should feature strongly in the

revised NC? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:41

@jimpknight thanks for your time Jim - much appreciated!

#ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:41

As they should in life @nightzookeeper: The arts should

feature strongly in the revised NC? #ukedchat


@nightzookeeper Keep saying that why do staff and kids love "drop

down days" so much more than "normal sessions"? More creative!

#ukedchat

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ebd35 20:41

@oldandrewuk: @cherrylkd @educationchat @bevevans22

#ukedchat Inclusion wasn't "mainstream if best" it was

"mainstream or else". disagree!

oldandrewuk 20:41

RT @PhilipEdmundson: @jimpknight @oldandrewuk External

exams, esp early entries moderate achievements from both

children and teachers perspectives. #ukedchat

clairegowland 20:41@jodieworld #ukedchat how could i possibly know that! I was justlooking at the positive and from my perspective.

ethinking 20:41

#ukedchat @Educationchat actually - you need to wind your neck

in - this is professional debate - no need to abuse people not

credible

eyebeams 20:41

Need to work in topics with outside experts co-opted with others

to give some genuine learning not pretend "metrics" learning :)

#ukedchat

philallman1 20:41

@oldandrewuk @DrSpenny @jimpknight and this would be worse

than now because???? #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:41

@philallman1 @AndrewPollard7 Immense creativity, highstandards and high expectations are part of the culture at my

school too! #ukedchat

lauwailap1 20:41

skills diagram or mastery as proposed seems like a good idea. It just

depends what they measure mastery in. #ukedchat

nightzookeeper 20:41 The arts should feature strongly in the revised NC? #ukedchat

julietteheppell 20:41 @jimpknight @ethinking yes! #ukedchat


RT @Teaching_LMP: As they should in life @nightzookeeper:

The arts should feature strongly in the revised NC? #ukedchat


@philallman1 Of course creative curric can Phil - appreciated!

That's why art, music etc in there. Couldn't take for granted tho

#ukedchat

bevevans22 20:42

RT @NickiA10: @bevevans22 @simcloughlin Skills can and should

be taught across range of subjects #ukedchat - My thoughts exactly

ethinking 20:42 @jimpknight thanks for your time #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:42

@bevevans22 @cherrylkd @educationchat #ukedchat I think it is

constructive to oppose the ideology of inclusion.

NickiA10 20:42

@bevevans22 @simcloughlin Skills can and should be taught across

range of subjects #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:42

@jimpknight Great to have you joining in with #ukedchat Have a

great Christmas!


@reflectivemaths @norfolkteacher1 I guess the theory is that it is

embedded in a lot of what we do on a daily basis #ukedchat

Baggiepr 20:42

Promoting Excellence in KS2 with a final paragraph on the

governments proposed new curriculum. http://t.co/tKJuofyb

#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:43

@ruthyie @gsussex @jimpknight Or there is the danger that we allbecome separate units so prims think about their skills etc...

#ukedchat

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philallman1 20:43

@AndrewPollard7 so why not build on THAT like Jim Rose was and

develop COMPETENCE rather than knowledge? #ukedchat

VivWatson1 20:43

#ukedchat Finland much better eg of curric than china or Singapore

(rote learning is part of the culture there). Let's take a proper look

norfolkteacher1 20:43RT @NickiA10: @bevevans22 @simcloughlin Skills can and shouldbe taught across range of subjects #ukedchat

bobharrisonset 20:43

@bevevans22 4Teaching schools going to lead on ICT,2primary

and 2 secondary.Some others also excellent use of ICT but variable

#ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:43

@nightzookeeper #ukedchat It was tried a lot in the 1970s. Became

a national scandal and led to the introduction of the National

Curriculum.

simcloughlin 20:43

@jimpknight Thanks for dropping in! If only more from Parliament

were as proactive in engaging with those on the frontline!

#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:43

@ruthyie @gsussex @jimpknight But surely we should provide

skills for all to be successful not leave it to workplace #ukedchat

geraldhaigh1 20:43

@dawnhallybone #ukedchat George Tomlinson, Min of Ed '47-'51

questioned about curriculum. 'Minister's got nowt to do wi't

curriculum.'

oldandrewuk 20:44

@ebd35 @cherrylkd @educationchat @bevevans22 Get back to

me after #ukedchat, and I'll find you the policy documents stating

just that.


@norfolkteacher1 @debbisimpson definitely, I think the increase in

tech edu has been a focus of #ukedchat in recent months

dawnhallybone 20:44

RT @philallman1: @jimpknight thanks for your time Jim - much

appreciated! seconded #ukedchat

NickLinford 20:44

Getting good feedback on @FEWeek @Apprenticeships special

edition - download: http://t.co/Su23cG3O. Tweet your thoughts

with #ukedchat

lsanger 20:44

@AngusWillson #ukedchat My retweets do not always imply

endorsement! :-)

gsussex 20:44

creativity, high standards and high expectations are part of the

culture at my school too! #ukedchat I'd echo that, our school

too!


@oldandrewuk @bevevans22 @cherrylkd @educationchat Not

sure it is, but accepting a massive rethink is stepping in right

direction. #ukedchat

jodieworld 20:44

@clairegowland I am not trying to criticise and understand your

viewpoint totally! Am playing devil's advocate re embedding

#ukedchat :-)

dukkhaboy 20:45

RT @aangeli: @dukkhaboy I think exams at 19 (only) would be a

sensible idea. #ukedchat

bevevans22 20:45#ukedchat Have to leave the chat a little early. It's been asinteresting as usual. Thanks all :)

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jodieworld 20:45

@clairegowland Am sure ICT tchers can embed brilliantly. But the

move to embed across curric may not always include an ICT teach.

#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:45

#ukedchat We need to ensure a complete 3-19 education system

allowing students to be successful beyond 19 surely?

nightzookeeper 20:45@oldandrewuk interesting, anything I can read on this that youknow of? #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:45

@philallman1 @DrSpenny @jimpknight #ukedchat Because things

are moving in the right direction now curriculum-wise.

dukkhaboy 20:45

@oldandrewuk #ukedchat so maybe no exams at 16 and no 11-16

schools too. Give them all a 6th form?

ebd35 20:45

@dawnhallybone: RT @philallman1: @jimpknight thanks for

your time Jim - much appreciated! seconded #ukedchat me

too!!

HilaryNunns 20:45

RT @NickiA10: 1 of highlighted probs is students not provided w/skills 4 workplace so surely post 14 should be all about that.

#ukedchat

dawnhallybone 20:45

RT @geraldhaigh1: #ukedchat George Tomlinson, Min of Ed '47-'51

questioned about curriculum. 'Minister's got nowt to do wi't

curriculum.'

HilaryNunns 20:46

Really?? RT "@oldandrewuk: @bevevans22 @cherrylkd

@educationchat #ukedchat I think it is constructive to oppose the

ideology of inclusion."

reallara 20:46

@SheliBB @OhLottie @norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeper

importance of opportunities to explore & learn across curriculum

#ukedchat

VivWatson1 20:46

#ukedchat ICT in my primary school is advanced and pupils in year

4-6 have greater skills than my own year 8 twins. Variables in

teaching :(

philallman1 20:46

@oldandrewuk @DrSpenny @jimpknight you REALLY think so? I'm

afraid I fundamentally disagree. #ukedchat

eylanezekiel 20:46

Is part of the problem that the teaching profession has never led

the debate around education? #ukedchat

Bdunford 20:46

RT @jodieworld: @clairegowland Am sure ICT tchers can embed

brilliantly. But the move to embed across curric may not always

include an ICT teach. #ukedchat

eyebeams 20:46

@oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper We didn't have the technology

we have now or joined up professional networks bad comparison

#ukedchat

stephenheppell 20:46

good night Jim, and indeed Good Knight Jim #ukedchat

@jimpknight


RT @eyebeams: @oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper We didn't have

the technology we have now or joined up professional networks

bad comparison #ukedchat

lauwailap1 20:47

@VivWatson1 As ICT teaching at primary becomes more advanced,

secondary ICT will have to introduce programming and more compsci #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:47 @NickiA10 You need to come to Scotland! #ukedchat

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ukedchat 20:47

RT @eylanezekiel: Is part of the problem that the teaching

profession has never led the debate around education? #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:47

@PhilipEdmundson @Educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex

#ukedchat True, but that results partly from the push for inclusion.

ethinking 20:47

RT @NickiA10: #ukedchat We need to ensure a complete 3-19education system allowing students to be successful beyond 19

surely?

NickiA10 20:47 @gsussex @ruthyie @jimpknight Indeed and thanks! #ukedchat

philallman1 20:47

@Paddymcgrath @andrewpollard7 Of course you teach knowledge

but WHAT knowledge should not be prescribed - that becomes

dogmatic #ukedchat


@eyebeams @oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper Culturally speaking

(and taught during 70s) we are worlds apart - Imagine Twitter

1976! #ukedchat

clairegowland 20:47

@jodieworld #ukedchat no, I guess you are right. I must make

sure I keep up the good work, so they don't get rid of me.


@benniekara @philipedmundson depends how you would define

academia? Do students have much more choice at HE level.

#ukedchat


@NickiA10 @bevevans22 @simcloughlin Imp point on skills risk.

New thinkg is NC knowldg + tch/sch led skills. Aims = imp check up

#ukedchat

eyebeams 20:48

@PhilipEdmundson @oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper I taught in

the 70's there was no cohesion because no connection between

teachers #ukedchat

HilaryNunns 20:48

@nightzookeeper @oldandrewuk #ukedchat I was schooled in the

70s and def had subjects

oldandrewuk 20:48

@Educationchat @bevevans22 @gsussex #ukedchat What's the

point on coming on here to agree? (Although one week I did do

that for a laugh).

NickiA10 20:48

@ruthyie @gsussex @jimpknight How about personalised learning

and thinking skills as identified by Mick Waters? #ukedchat

ebd35 20:48






cherrylkd 20:48

@PhilipEdmundson @oldandrewuk @bevevans22 @educationchat

#ukedchat as long as its 4 good of ch & not 2 save money, can

always accept rethink

geraldhaigh1 20:49Always been more freedom within NC guidelines than many havetaken advantage of. Some heads timid about this. #ukedchat

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simcloughlin 20:49

@Bdunford I agree that there are some good points in the review,

but I do question the majority of points. #ukedchat


RT @benniekara: @nightzookeeper @philipedmundson #ukedchat

good question. I guess problem with thematic is risk of watering

down subjects, losing depth?

eyebeams 20:49

@lauwailap1 @VivWatson1 And/or deeper design, art and music

tech #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:49

@AndrewPollard7 @bevevans22 @simcloughlin But if knowledge is

prescribed then knowledge becomes fixed! #ukedchat

jodieworld 20:49

@clairegowland I am sure you will be kept! And do excellent work

with other departments. Fly the flag! :-) #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:49

@HilaryNunns @jimpknight #ukedchat They tell us more than any

other method, and it is the complete absence of learning that is the

problem.

nightzookeeper 20:49Hasn't been mentioned yet - when should MFL be introduced in theNC? #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:49

RT @Bdunford: It's easy to be concerned by the #natcur review,

but there are some really good bits in it too. A debate of change is

always good. #ukedchat

benniekara 20:49

@nightzookeeper @philipedmundson #ukedchat good question. I

guess problem with thematic is risk of watering down subjects,

losing depth?

Bdunford 20:49

It's easy to be concerned by the #natcur review, but there are some

really good bits in it too. A debate of change is always good.

#ukedchat

NickiA10 20:50 @ukedchat Wow that's been quick #ukedchat


@benniekara @philipedmundson a thematic approach improves

the depth of learning and increases the amount students retain

#ukedchat

jodieworld 20:50

@clairegowland I don't think any jobs will go really, just be hard for

all departments to have an expert to hand weekly #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:50

@eylanezekiel #ukedchat Yes! Who ever in politics asks or listens 2

teachers? Everyone's an expert on teaching except teachers!

MisiesD 20:50

@NickiA10 Like everywhere else, pros and cons. HMI don't seem as

bad as Ofsted though. #ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:50

@nightzookeeper Whenever it is it should be standardised. I

restarted French at secondary as other feeder schools hadn't done

it #ukedchat

ukedchat 20:50 Wow. Great #ukedchat this evening. Last 10 minutes folks

ethinking 20:50

@HilaryNunns @oldandrewuk inclusion is a sacred cow - you can't

question it - you are being mean to poor children - #ukedchat

philallman1 20:50

@geraldhaigh1 sadly b/c of inspection implications and high stakes

involved #ukedchat

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eyebeams 20:51

I think we need to remodel people's roles in education - make them

more agile and reflective learners and that's just the teachers

#ukedchat

SheliBB 20:51

@reallara @ohlottie @norfolkteacher1 @nightzookeeper

definitely! Eyfs style curric.Ongoing formative assessment,no

summative stuff #ukedchat

CreativeSTAR 20:51

It's all about Stuff! Part 2 Lunchtime play projecthttp://t.co/q7EnZdIg #playoutdoors #recycling #learnoutdoors

#ukedchat #edchat

reallara 20:51

@nightzookeeper True. From experience Y3 is a better starting

place than Y5. More open to MFL, especially if gradual introduction

#ukedchat

thelazyteacher 20:51



PhilipEdmundson 20:51@benniekara @nightzookeeper If thrown together/fudged, thenyes. Given clear aims and time, then no. #ukedchat

debbisimpson 20:51

RT @TonyPickford1: @VivWatson1 #ukedchat ICT quality in

primary hugely variable, which is why devolving ICT to schools in

#NCReview is ill-advised.

oldandrewuk 20:51

@PhilipEdmundson @nightzookeeper #ukedchat In my experience

they don't.

Teaching_LMP 20:52

Aside: In my placement school they have dropped the "F" and just

call it "ML." Surely that includes English? Anyway... #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:52 @ruthyie But unis now saying that students don't have. #ukedchat

HilaryNunns 20:52



gsussex 20:52

#ukedchat I am pleased timing in now Sept 2014 as it gives time for

further reflection & sharing of views

joehallg 20:52

What would happen if #natcur review was delayed forever? Would

we all feel the freedom and do it anyway? #ukedchat"

lauwailap1 20:52

@OhLottie It will all come back to accountability, "basic" still

implies it's a compulsory subject so can still be inspected #ukedchat

ethinking 20:52

RT @eyebeams: I think we need to remodel people's roles in

education - make them more agile and reflective learners and

that's just the teachers #ukedchat

julietteheppell 20:52

@nightzookeeper @benniekara @philipedmundson entirely agree

thematic = more depth of subject! #ukedchat


Big question - How effective is the year by year approach to

educating, could this be altered, what would be the impact?

#ukedchat

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oldandrewuk 20:52

@eyebeams @nightzookeeper #ukedchat But advocates of this

sort of change have always said the technology makes the

difference. It never does

ruthyie 20:52

@NickiA10 #ukedchat I'm all for PLTS. Need to be developed long

before KS4. Along with ICT-related research skills. Stuff we learned

at uni!

lsanger 20:52

#ukedchat gives me a headache. Are they really seriously talking

about reducing their curriculum so it is finished at age 14?


@benniekara @nightzookeeper Strikes me that social media

makes us inventive & that we need to lead debate on taking this

forward. #ukedchat

Bdunford 20:52



samschoolstuff 20:53

RT @AndrewPollard7: Need 2 b clear on status of #natcur rpt 2

generate debate. Acceptance/rejection later by govt.Tchrs/stakehldrs must engage now. #ukedchat

davidandrew52 20:53




acprac 20:53




oldandrewuk 20:53

@NickiA10 @ruthyie @gsussex @jimpknight #ukedchat Slogans

used to justify dumbing down. There are no generic, teachable

thinking skills.

lauwailap1 20:53

@eyebeams @VivWatson1 YES, I'd love to see more interactive

media, motion graphics, video, or games design on the ICT

curriculum #ukedchat


@eyebeams I would say that many primary teachers are already

doing this #ukedchat

VivWatson1 20:53

#ukedchat I worry that education has for too long been a political

pawn shunted around a board with one aim - protecting the

establishment

MrShopland 20:53




@oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper May I ask why, Andrew?

#ukedchat

Teaching_LMP 20:53

RT @nightzookeeper: Big question - How effective is the year by

year approach to educating, could this be altered, what would be

the impact? #ukedchat

philallman1 20:53

@oldandrewuk @eyebeams @nightzookeeper b/c of the lack of

expertise which will worsen if not part of core. #ukedchat

oldandrewuk 20:53@HilaryNunns @nightzookeeper #ukedchat I didn't say it wasuniversal. Obviously it was mainly forced on kids in deprived areas.

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chrisrat 20:53

RT @Bdunford: It's easy to be concerned by the #natcur review,

but there are some really good bits in it too. A debate of change is

always good. #ukedchat


Need 2 b clear on status of #natcur rpt 2 generate debate.

Acceptance/rejection later by govt. Tchrs/stakehldrs must engage

now. #ukedchat

MisiesD 20:53#ukedchat Thought I wouldn't Tweet tonight as we have CfE inScotland. Couldn't stop myself! :-) #interloper

oldandrewuk 20:54

@philallman1 @Paddymcgrath @andrewpollard7 #ukedchat I think

it's hard to justify that in the core. Studying popular culture is not

enough.

eyebeams 20:54

@oldandrewuk @nightzookeeper Not saying that at all -it is

teacher's and SMT management remodelling around learning

augmented by #ukedchat


RT @nightzookeeper: @julietteheppell @benniekara

@philipedmundson we don't live our lives in subjects, so why

should we learn & teach in this way? #ukedchat

cherrylkd 20:54

RT @philallman1: @geraldhaigh1 sadly b/c of inspection

implications & high stakes involved #ukedchat Agree!Ofsted

causes heads to be timid


@julietteheppell @benniekara @philipedmundson we don't live

our lives in subjects, so why should we learn & teach in this way?

#ukedchat

MultiMartin 20:55

Professional associations like @The_UKLA are so important when

trying to influence policy but teachers need a greater voice too

#ukedchat

oliverquinlan 20:55




lauwailap1 20:55

@gsussex, yes agree Sept 2014 is quite a long time away, so

hopefully more people can reflect and contribute to the reform

debate #ukedchat


@nightzookeeper @benniekara @philipedmundson Exactly! Does

not help the students! #ukedchat


RT @VivWatson1: #ukedchat I worry that education has for too

long been a political pawn shunted around a board with one aim -

protecting the establishment

philallman1 20:55

@AndrewPollard7 which as long as we are listened to we are

delighted by #ukedchat

debbisimpson 20:55

@simcloughlin apart from esafety ICT NC has held up pretty well

it's the QCA unit approach tickbox approach that is out of date

#ukedchat

jodieworld 20:56

@julietteheppell that would be a real shame and the whole

community would suffer! #ukedchat


@BobToms100 we've done this (small scale) in our dept and it's

been a HUGE success! #ukedchat

simcloughlin 20:56

@philallman1 @AndrewPollard7 Yes, it's this aspect that's

important. Gov must talk to more than uni professors & retiredadvisors #ukedchat

ukedchat 20:56 Last few minutes for #ukedchat this evening.

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TonyPickford1 20:56

@debbisimpson: @simcloughlin apart from esafety ICT NC has

held up pretty well. tickbox approach out of date #ukedchat

Spot on!

eyebeams 20:56

@norfolkteacher1 Look at the marvellous STEM projects out there

e.g. http://t.co/GunxiSSd social velcro around learning #ukedchat


@nightzookeeper Big discussion on this in #natcur rev. Centrallydetermined YoY constraining, but gd for home/sch lng locally.

#ukedchat

philallman1 20:56

@oldandrewuk @Paddymcgrath @andrewpollard7 I don't think I

said that - as a historian I'd disagree with that anyway. #ukedchat

NickiA10 20:56

@AndrewPollard7 Agreed but too often views of those very ppl are

ignored or it appears that way #ukedchat

jodieworld 20:56

@clairegowland That's exactly how I think it should be. Discrete for

teaching skills/coding etc & embed use of tools across curric

#ukedchat

Michael_Merrick 20:57

oh goodness - someone just used the phrase 'social velcro' in a non-

ironic sense #ukedchat

gsussex 20:57

#ukedchat I would be encouraged if reviewers & policy makers

visited countries referenced in person rather than relying on data

from others

chrisrat 20:57

RT @simcloughlin: @philallman1 @AndrewPollard7 Yes, it's this

aspect that's important. Gov must talk to more than uni professors

& retired advisors #ukedchat

asober 20:57

RT @ukedchat: #asechat takes over #ukedchat next week via

@viciascience. Poll now online - http://t.co/TUnxGI22


RT @AndrewPollard7: @nightzookeeper Big discussion on this in

#natcur rev. Centrally determined YoY constraining, but gd for

home/sch lng locally. #ukedchat

reallara 20:57 Won't quite make it to the end of #ukedchat Thanks all

TonyPickford1 20:57

RT @philallman1: @oldandrewuk @eyebeams @nightzookeeper

b/c of the lack of expertise which will worsen if not part of core.

#ukedchat

ethinking 20:57

#ukedchat has anyone watched Howard gardners 5 minds for the

future? Reassuring reminder of links between subject knowledge

and skills

NickiA10 20:57

RT @philallman1: Of course there are generic skills that can be

taught - we use them all the time in life. #ukedchat

ViciaScience 20:57

RT @ukedchat: #asechat takes over #ukedchat next week via

@viciascience. Poll now online - http://t.co/TUnxGI22

philallman1 20:57

Of course there are generic skills that can be taught - we use them

all the time in life. #ukedchat

PhilipEdmundson 20:57 @ukedchat Good stuff tonight! Many thanks.

geraldhaigh1 20:57

@philallman1 Anecdotal evidence is Ofsted surprisingly accepting

of thoughtful alternatives to apparently official line. Anyone?

#ukedchat

HilaryNunns 20:57@ethinking #ukedchat I couldn't agree more. Creative pedagogy isrequired

ruthyie 20:58 @Michael_Merrick #ukedchat Whassit mean? Sounds fun.

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Review Discussion

philallman1 20:58

@AndrewPollard7 I don't expect to get it all my own way - just be

heard! #ukedchat

nightzookeeper 20:58 @ethinking can you post the link for this video? #ukedchat

lauwailap1 20:58

@nightzookeeper You do need subj specialists

Date post:	06-Apr-2018
Category:	Documents
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Ukedchat 22 Dec 2011

Documents